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Old Mar 15, 2012, 09:59 PM
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Liberalism on Liberalism, where is the critical examination.

With so many examples of failed policy decisions, liberalism will not challenge its liberalism policies. Non liberalism thinkers pound away, challenge failed policies across party affiliations... but not liberalism.

Why?

Iíll ask a rhetorical question, is Modern Liberalism, Progressivism, above reproach because itís unflawed, or are subservience so completely dependent on Statism, that unalienable rights should be given away for centralized tyranny.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Liberalism - definition



Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Liberalism - definition



Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion
What you've described is Classical Liberalism, which is a far cry from modern liberalism aka Progressivism or Social Liberalism, which is what is typically found in the Democratic party.

The idea if "Constitutionalism", "Capitalism", and "free exercise of religion" are pretty much contrary to what many Democrats in the US political sphere actually support.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:06 PM
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Todays liberals are a whole different breed. A liberal at one time was much more tolerable and actually may have had some productive ideas. Those days are long gone.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
What you've described is Classical Liberalism, which is a far cry from modern liberalism aka Progressivism or Social Liberalism, which is what is typically found in the Democratic party.

The idea if "Constitutionalism", "Capitalism", and "free exercise of religion" are pretty much contrary to what many Democrats in the US political sphere actually support.
You say that - but it's not so - there isn't one facet of my cherry picked descriptor of Liberalism that Republicans would have issues with!

Calling Liberalism 'Communism' is not just plain wrong, it's emotive nonsense intended to strike fear into a guillable sector of the electorate that cannot see the bigger picture - it's a Palin tool - see how it worked for her.............oh wait
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Todays liberals are a whole different breed. A liberal at one time was much more tolerable and actually may have had some productive ideas. Those days are long gone.
And this you know for a fact do you
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
You say that - but it's not so - there isn't one facet of my cherry picked descriptor of Liberalism that Republicans would have issues with!

Calling Liberalism 'Communism' is not just plain wrong, it's emotive nonsense intended to strike fear into a guillable sector of the electorate that cannot see the bigger picture - it's a Palin tool - see how it worked for her.............oh wait
You can cherry pick all you want. But the there is a distinction between a Classical Liberal and a Modern Social Liberal.

One could pretend there wasn't, but you'd be wrong. A classical liberal places the individual above the collective, while a social liberal places the collective above the individual.

Perhaps the distinction is different in the UK, I don't know. Heck, most Social Liberals here in the US don't know the difference either. They'd puke when they learned that Classical Liberalims promoted Free Market Capitalism and Small Government.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Liberalism - definition



Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion
The skirt gets lifted every day... modern liberalism is self-identified as progressivism… your wasting database space.

Any chance you can address the topic?
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
You can cherry pick all you want. But the there is a distinction between a Classical Liberal and a Modern Social Liberal.

One could pretend there wasn't, but you'd be wrong. A classical liberal places the individual above the collective, while a social liberal places the collective above the individual.

Perhaps the distinction is different in the UK, I don't know. Heck, most Social Liberals here in the US don't know the difference either. They'd puke when they learned that Classical Liberalims promoted Free Market Capitalism and Small Government.
Well you're right when you imply that 'most don't know the difference' that's for sure.

If Bachmann or Palin or that ilk of political riff raff stands up on a lecturn with a flag in one hand and Mom's apple pie in the other and shouts 'Liberal' - those at the gathering in question would immediately go all teary eyed at the loss of Joe McCarthy!
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
You can cherry pick all you want. But the there is a distinction between a Classical Liberal and a Modern Social Liberal.

One could pretend there wasn't, but you'd be wrong. A classical liberal places the individual above the collective, while a social liberal places the collective above the individual.

Perhaps the distinction is different in the UK, I don't know. Heck, most Social Liberals here in the US don't know the difference either. They'd puke when they learned that Classical Liberalims promoted Free Market Capitalism and Small Government.
With all respect, this post just makes my Euro head totally confused. Though i think i do know why.
Do you agree that classical liberalism also promotes abortion, feminism, islam, multiculture, etc? Does it for you?
Do you see conservatism and classical liberalism as enemies?
Does conservative support classical liberalism by the definition?
What is this "social liberalism"? I mean is it commonly known term, or is just a term used by US right wing? I do know what you mean by it though indeed.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rcjetpilot View Post
With so many examples of failed policy decisions, liberalism will not challenge its liberalism policies. Non liberalism thinkers pound away, challenge failed policies across party affiliations... but not liberalism.

Why?

I’ll ask a rhetorical question, is Modern Liberalism, Progressivism, above reproach because it’s unflawed, or are subservience so completely dependent on Statism, that unalienable rights should be given away for centralized tyranny.
Yes.

While silliness abounds with Leftists trying to distract the issue by arguing the really dumb "meaning of Liberalism", everyone should know that Liberalism has been properly replaced with the term "Progressive" and let it go at that.

And yes, Progressivism is above reproach by Progressives because it doesn't matter one bit whether their policies work or not.
The only goal of a Progressive is subservience to their policies and rule, so anyone who opposes them are not worthy of their time and nor are they even worthy of existence.

LTUP itself is proof that no Progressive will ever question the results of Progressive policies, no matter how obviously damaging and unConstitutional those policies are.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:22 AM
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With all respect, this post just makes my Euro head totally confused. Though i think i do know why.
Do you agree that classical liberalism also promotes abortion, feminism, islam, multiculture, etc? Does it for you?
Do you see conservatism and classical liberalism as enemies?
Does conservative support classical liberalism by the definition?
What is this "social liberalism"? I mean is it commonly known term, or is just a term used by US right wing? I do know what you mean by it though indeed.
Yes. Classical Liberalism does support those things ... and more importantly, I support those things.

The modernday American polictical landscape is dominated by Democrats (Social Liberals) and Republicans (Neo-Conservatives).

None of those would be classified as Classical Liberals, none of them really do promote individual Freedoms ... they only do so for subjects they support ... for all other issues, it's back to telling everyone how to live.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Liberalism - definition



Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion
You do realize that just about every item you listed claiming that liberals support is absolutely contrary to today's liberals right?
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 10:14 AM
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1984....

Modern Liberalism is an attempt to re-define a term so as to use it for completely different purposes.

Modern Conservatives have more in common with Classical Liberalism than any current "ism" on the left.

The reason for the problem with Modern Liberals is that they totally believe that the ends justify the means. The goal justifies anything done to attain that goal. Lieing, passing unknown bills, changing the meaning of words are all justified if the end result will achieve the desired goal. Words only mean what I need them to mean at the time that I need them to mean something. Thus I will defend "rights" up until the time that I need that right to go away because it is inconvenient for me. I will redefine the meaning of the constitution dynamically because I then I will no longer have to regard it as a limit on my actions, but as a tool to be manipulated to attain the result I desire. I will make promises I donot intend to keep because I will then be able to use the power resulting from peoples votes to enact the policies that will achieve the result I desire, so my means are justified because I got the desired ends. I can lie to get teh votes for my bill, I will just create a new tax to support abotion that I promised that taxes would not support.

The Modern Liberal Motto - Intentions justify anything. We can enslave everyone so we can make them accept what we know they must have.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RumRunner_1492 View Post
You do realize that just about every item you listed claiming that liberals support is absolutely contrary to today's liberals right?
Nope - you CLAIM it so - but you're wrong!

It's ok, you're often wrong and I never get tired of helping you muddle through
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