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Old Mar 14, 2012, 11:50 AM
Feeling FrSky
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Feb 2003
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Build Log
New EPP VTPR kitbash: Le Cygne (The Swan)

So, my son JosÚ Luis is getting really excited about flying. We had another outing this past weekend, his most successful to date. He is a natural. He is learning with an old Weasel-pro I've had knocking about for ages.

But, what he really wants is a Le Fish-style glider like dad. And what dad wants is to experiment with some different design ideas. Dad just happens to have some Guppy cores and a Padawan fuse laying about. Kitbash is a go!

Le Cygne (The Swan) will be a 1.2m (48") VTPR aerobat with a pod-and-boom fuselage. The "pod" part will be created from the fuselage of a Padawan, a tiny EPP pitcheron from France designed for VTPR. I had it set aside for "someday" but now it will be repurposed. The "boom" part will be a carbon tube I've got that was I think meant to be a pushrod for one of the bigger planes.

The Guppy wing cores are similar to what's provided in the LEG kit, except cut for my preferred single vertical ribbon spar arrangement.

The plane will have Depron flaperons and tail surfaces, a la Suisse
And a full flying elevator and rudder capable of significant rotation

I hope to have it flying soon, the trickiest part will be the tail assembly. I will document my various successes and failures here, for your amusement

Steve
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Last edited by surfimp; Mar 14, 2012 at 12:00 PM.
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 03:52 PM
Feeling FrSky
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
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For reference about the ultimate vision, something along the lines of the BLH Andorra Fun Acro is in mind:

http://www.blhandorra.com/funacro/funacro.htm



...except for the straight LE treatment and wacky tail arrangement

Steve
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 04:10 PM
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United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Jul 2005
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Watching...

Interested to see how the stab works for you. We had a number of issues in the mad stab on our 40" extra/yak variants.


A little Swan Inspiration
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 04:14 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Well I'm 1/1 on the Madstabs so far... not too concerned about that part

The rudder on the other hand could be interesting.

Steve
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 04:58 PM
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Nothing mechanical, we just found that our expected results differed from the 60"+ versions. Perhaps tail moment and stab area come into play. The cg was really played with. We weren't getting the flips we got with the bigger models. Dan's 80" Extra flipped real good. Just wondering if size matters?
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 05:35 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Ahhh, very interesting. Thanks! Probably a mass/inertia thing. When these get so light it's hard to keep the wing from starting to fly again. I guess we'll see!

Steve
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 06:22 PM
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United States, FL, Indialantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gas View Post
Watching...

Interested to see how the stab works for you. We had a number of issues in the mad stab on our 40" extra/yak variants.


A little Swan Inspiration
Gotta' wonder what the "View" count totals on your two posted photos says about the VTPR contingent in general?

Here's a quirky idea for a tail boom or longeron setup that I've been mulling...... a matched pair of ultralight graphite fishing rod tips mounted above/below each other on a vertical plane with the forward butt ends imbedded in the fuse an inch or 3 apart and angled so the aft smaller tip ends are closer together. One could then tie the aft tips together with a light plate of carbon graphite that would be the base for the elevator axle pivot tube. ????

Looking forward to seeing what ya' come up with, Steve.......(and even more to seeing Jose Luis kicking yer shins to get the transmitter loose)

Ken
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 06:26 PM
Wind Powered
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United States, CA, Goleta
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+1 for JLL leading the new school!
Grommet Sloper FTW.
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 06:42 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snewk View Post
Gotta' wonder what the "View" count totals on your two posted photos says about the VTPR contingent in general?
They're men?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snewk
Here's a quirky idea for a tail boom or longeron setup that I've been mulling...... a matched pair of ultralight graphite fishing rod tips mounted above/below each other on a vertical plane with the forward butt ends imbedded in the fuse an inch or 3 apart and angled so the aft smaller tip ends are closer together. One could then tie the aft tips together with a light plate of carbon graphite that would be the base for the elevator axle pivot tube. ????
Had a similar idea for the tailboom, except I was thinking two CF ribbons bonded vertically to the sides of the EPP pod and running back where they'd be tied together (possibly literally tied together with kevlar thread). The flat top would provide a nice base for the elevator axle assembly and the "V" at the back would provide a nice place to mount the rudder axle. And because these ribbons would be mounted in the vertical they'd naturally resist the positive and negative Gs that tailbooms face. And the curving together towards the tail would create a sort of arched structure that would resist side-to-side movement, too.

Lots of ways to do this

Steve
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Looks good Steve.

I am planning on doing something very similar in a 60" - 72" size using a recycled carbon tail boom. I too will have balanced full flying h- and v-stabs. H-stab will be forward of the v-stab... to allow for full 180+░ rotation. She will have removable wings to experiment with TP42/29 and TP 204 airfoils.... as well as good old SB96v and vs.

I hope to get her done by W-fest.

Dawson
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 09:02 PM
Feeling FrSky
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We're surfing the same wavelength D! Per usual

Definitely planning a DLG-style arrangement of the stabilizers.

Steve
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 10:25 PM
let's FLY!
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The boom fuse could maybe reduce side resistance enough to help in the quest for the elusive 360?
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 10:51 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZinVT View Post
The boom fuse could maybe reduce side resistance enough to help in the quest for the elusive 360?
Welcome to the party, Jim

Steve,
Who doesn't have high hopes, but is going to try anyways.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 01:40 AM
Feeling FrSky
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So, nothing more to show photos of yet, but JosÚ Luis and I spent a little time this evening working on the plane.

We're going with the rod boom as opposed to the ribbons.. the axial stability of the two ribbons was never gonna work out, the fin would've laid down on its side with any kind of significant load, and I wasn't about to go crazy trying to fix it



We also cut the wing saddle. It's really fun working on this with my son, and he's enjoying it, too. Even Paulo (the littler one, almost 5 though!) came and joined towards the end. Good times with the boys in the shop

Steve
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 09:39 AM
Good, fast or cheap, pick two
robh's Avatar
Napa, California
Joined Jul 2006
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What a great project Steve, and it's even better when you can do it with your Sons Watching closely, and it's always great fun to see a kit bash come together!
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