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Old Mar 10, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Romeo, MI
Joined Jul 2003
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Question
Help...Anyone ever rewind an E-flite 450 motor before?

Hi,

One of my friends gave me an old E-flite 450 motor that no longer works. I like the way the motor performed when it worked. So I was hoping to rewind the motor with the same size wire, the same amount of winds, and the same configuration. Only problem is...I've never done anything like this before. I've found ALLOT of information on rewinding all kinds of motors, all different ways. But I haven't been able to locate any information specifically on the E-flite 450 motor. Such as disassembly, wire size, number of windings, wiring configuration, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Mark
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:39 AM
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United States, WA, Seattle
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Possible? Probably.
Easy? Not at all. The thing is a major glued together mess Getting it apart is nothing shy of awful.
I certainly wouldn't start with that motor.
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Last edited by flydiver; Mar 11, 2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 12:22 PM
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Romeo, MI
Joined Jul 2003
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Thanks for the reply flydiver.

I read in allot of threads about the gluey mess, better known as E-flite motors. But I knew about this before starting this thread. Am I looking forward to dealing with it...No...But it's something I'll have to deal with if I'm going to attempt rewinding it. As for "starting with", I don't plan on getting into winding my own motors. I just want to see if I can bring this one little motor back to life (the closet to it's original configuration if possible). So in that it's true that it will be my "starting" point. Unless I get another bad motor it will also be my "ending" point. Just something to play around with in between working on airplanes.

I noticed several good threads by "manual v" on disassembling, rewinding, repairing, and general care of motors. Along with several other good threads on working with other motors. So I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting into. I was just hoping to find a thread, or info, specific to this one motor.

One thing I know nothing about is what size wire should I use, and how many winds should I do, to get similar results to the stock motor? Also, the wire looks pretty thin on the stock E-flite 450. So I was wondering if they used multiple wires instead of one thicker wire, for each wind? I know, easy to find out by just taking the motor apart. But I was hoping to learn as much as I can about this motor before tearing into it. If they did use multiple wires, from what I read, it would be better to rewind it with a single thicker wire? If so, do you just calculate the area of all the wires used, and then find the closest single wire to the area?

Also, I notice several wiring configurations, and terminations, posted in threads. But have no idea which one is used on the E-flite 450? I plan on paying very close attention to the way the wiring is wrapped when I'm taking it apart, along with taking allot of photos along the way to use as a reference. But it would help to know which wiring configuration they used on the stock motor before I strip all the wiring off of it?

I'd appreciate any other info, or tips, anyone would care to share on this little project?

Thanks again,

Mark
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Stuff by manual v is your best bet.

All the questions you are asking is a bit like saying I only want to learn to fly EDF jets. Not interested in messing around with that other 'training stuff'.
You have picked one of the worst motors you could. Just like learning to fly takes time and the progression of many small steps, winding does also. You are trying to take off a mighty big bite first time out.

The vast majority of motor manuf. wind with cheap thin wire. One of the major upgrades re-winders have it using better thicker wire. WHAT wire, HOW many winds, and termination to get the results (KV) you want is a big part of the learning curve and information sharing.

First, you got to get the mess apart-but I've said that. There will absolutely be no way you'll be able to get that data from that motor. Removal will be tedious and destructive. Frankly I ruined the one I tried working on and by the time I chucked it I was just shy of beating the thing with a big hammer. That's probably why you haven't found much on it. I HAD read the information from manual v about taking apart those kind of motors so I was somewhat prepared but not prepared enough.
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Romeo, MI
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I didn't say it was going to be easy lol. The way I look at it, the motor doesn't work right now. So there is nothing I can do to it that will make it any worse. If, after playing around with it for awhile, I don't seem to be getting anywhere. I'll just pitch it. But just because the motor I have is categorized as one of the "worst" motors to rewind, doesn't mean that it's not worth trying, or that it wouldn't be fun to try and get it working again.

"WHAT wire, HOW many winds, and termination to get the results (KV) you want is a big part of the learning curve and information sharing."

There is really no learning curve involved with any of these details if somebody knows the information I'm looking for, and is willing to share it (as you kind of suggest at the end of you statement above "information sharing").

It's really as easy as ABC. Take "A" size wire, wrap it "B" turns, in "C" configuration.

I realize I still have the problem of first getting the mess apart, and then successfully getting it all together again. But I have no desire to get into the intricacies of motor winding. I'm mainly just looking for the stock ABC's listed above, or a good compromise to get similar performance from the motor, and I'll wing it from there lol.

If nobody has the information I'm looking for, I'll just attempt it on my own with whatever information I can gather from the stock motor while I'm tearing it apart.

Whatever happens it should be interesting!

Mark
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:59 PM
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You have a good attitude. Since that motor is a tough subject you may not find anyone with specific data. Your best bet is to find a motor with the same dimensions (stator) and use that info,
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 07:47 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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How to repair an electric motor. - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079423

How to Unwind a Dualsky XM2830CA-12? - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1603770

Separating the stator from the stator-holder? - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1599467

Your choices for a rewinding method are several, LRK, DLRK, Half Parallel DLRK, ABC, and even Half Parallel ABC are just some. I'd recommend DLRK or ABC for a first rewind.

Here is a good tutorial for the DLRK wind (it actually shows two ways to do the wind):

Winding Distributed LRK Using The 24-gram Hexkit - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736580

And here is a Instruction manual for winding and assembling a Komodo kit motor what is similar (12 arm stator) and it describes how to do the DLRK and ABC winds on a typical 12 arm stator:

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/...o/KH-257-2.pdf

Good luck with it, when you are ready to start the actual winding, check back here and show us what you have and we'll help you choose a wind. If you can, try to count the turns on one of the stator arms if you can. That will help as far as getting a rewind with a similar Kv rating.

Jack
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 11:13 AM
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Romeo, MI
Joined Jul 2003
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Thanks for all the good advice...and thanks for all the links Jack!

I guess the first thing I need to do before worrying about the rewind is to get this thing apart. I'll write back with the results (either good or bad), when I'm ready to move onto the next step.

I'll try to be as attentive as I can of the wiring, and turns, as I take this thing apart. But from everything I've read about this motor (including what flydiver has said) it may not be easy, or even possible lol.

Thanks again for the help guys!

Mark
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 12:06 PM
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United States, WA, Puyallup
Joined Aug 2006
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took me hr. 1.5 to get that stinkin wire off one and ruined the stator, just not worth it.
if ya like to play with motors pick up something from microdan or a hobbyking DIY kits and go to komoto.com, will teach ya all the basics
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 11:36 AM
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United States, CA, Lodi
Joined Feb 2001
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I just unwound a power 25 and it's not easy. For only one motor, I don't think it's worth the hours of reading about it, buying wire and blistering your fingers getting it apart.
If you change your mind and decide you'd like to wind motors once in a while like I do, then go for it. It can be quite rewarding making a cheap motor perform like those costing 2-3 times as much.
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Romeo, MI
Joined Jul 2003
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Hi Steve,

What method did you use to remove the windings from your 25...Heat, cutting tools, or both?

I'm getting a lot of replies telling me "it's not worth it". But all I can say is that these people just don't understand what drives some of us. It's not a matter of time invested, money, or anything other than simply taking something that doesn't work, and making it work.

Like I said, I'm not that interested in trying to improve, upgrade, or trying to make the motor better than it was from the factory. It was perfect for it's intended use just as it was. So my main goal with this project is just to get it to work again, as close to it's original specs as I can.

I appreciate all the replies though. To much knowledge is never a bad thing.

Mark
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 12:59 PM
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Swearing....don't forget swearing.
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 01:14 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Romeo View Post
Hi Steve,

What method did you use to remove the windings from your 25...Heat, cutting tools, or both?

I'm getting a lot of replies telling me "it's not worth it". But all I can say is that these people just don't understand what drives some of us. It's not a matter of time invested, money, or anything other than simply taking something that doesn't work, and making it work.

Like I said, I'm not that interested in trying to improve, upgrade, or trying to make the motor better than it was from the factory. It was perfect for it's intended use just as it was. So my main goal with this project is just to get it to work again, as close to it's original specs as I can.
If you don't want to make it better, then maybe you shouldn't even get started on it. I say that because almost no matter how badly you do it, if it starts and runs, you will have a better motor.

Quote:
I appreciate all the replies though. To much knowledge is never a bad thing.

Mark
You just picked a bad starting point, one of the hardest motors there is to rewind.

If you can find an old Tower Pro CD-ROM style motor (like the TP 24xx series) that would be a quick and easy start. And if the motor was not 50% better I would be amazed.

Just the fact that you've come here and inquired probably means that you're doomed to succumb to the urge to do it. Look at this photo of what I did to a brand new, never used, DAT-750, who could stand to fly with the motor on the left when it could be like the one on the right with just a effort?

Jack
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 03:47 PM
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United States, WA, Puyallup
Joined Aug 2006
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speaking of TPs just seen a guy sellin 6 Tower pros in the for sale forums cheap, perfect to fool around with! not to mention a decent running motor
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 04:32 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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If they are cheap, jump on it! I ran a wanted ad there for TP motors a couple of years ago and got about 10 or 12 motors of various kinds darned cheap. In some cases they were free! And that was what got me started in rewinding.

I'll admit that I had developed an insatiable curiosity about rewinding at that point and having a box full of dying and dead motor gave me the incentive to breathe life back into them. Head's up RC had the bearing and replacement shafts and the other bits and pieces and I had the 9 and 12 arm stators to get going with.

Jac
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