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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:11 AM
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United States, MI, Waterford Charter Township
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Regarding the Swift, is there a string here dedicated to that plane? I suck when it comes to searches and didn't find much, wondering if I just missed it? I'm really happy with the 1100mm Yak I bought a couple weeks ago after reading through a lot of that (rather large?) string. So yesterday, when I saw the 15% off offer at NP (65. delivered!), I couldn't resist, and pulled the trigger on a Swift. I see now there's not a lot of information specific to that plane. Not that big a deal, but I enjoy reading through those and gaining from the collective experience of others...

Thanks, -Al
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:56 AM
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I don't think there is a specific thread on the Swift, but I did find enough talk spread throught these forums to guide me in outfitting mine. I used an Emax BL2810/12 86 gram motor from Heads Up RC, 30 amp esc, 10 x 5e prop, 3s 1300 battery, and 12 gram metal gear servos. I have been real happy with these choices. Lots and lots of power. You will want to epoxy glue some 1/8 plywood doublers to the lower fuse around the landing gear mount or it will rip out of the foam. Also, the landing gear wires are rather light, and they spread out during landings, so I made a wire to run from one leg of the landing gear to the other and bound it all together with dental floss and ca glue. I also painted some 30 minute epoxy all around the plywood engine mount because of some reports that the factory didn't use enough glue there. Other than that, you should be good to go. . Unbelievable how long and gently its landing approaches are. It always catches me by suprise at first, so make sure there isn't a house or something at the end of the runway. Great plane. Good luck and Congrats.

Mark
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markl22 View Post
I don't think there is a specific thread on the Swift, but I did find enough talk spread throught these forums to guide me in outfitting mine. I used an Emax BL2810/12 86 gram motor from Heads Up RC, 30 amp esc, 10 x 5e prop, 3s 1300 battery, and 12 gram metal gear servos. I have been real happy with these choices. Lots and lots of power. You will want to epoxy glue some 1/8 plywood doublers to the lower fuse around the landing gear mount or it will rip out of the foam. Also, the landing gear wires are rather light, and they spread out during landings, so I made a wire to run from one leg of the landing gear to the other and bound it all together with dental floss and ca glue. I also painted some 30 minute epoxy all around the plywood engine mount because of some reports that the factory didn't use enough glue there. Other than that, you should be good to go. . Unbelievable how long and gently its landing approaches are. It always catches me by suprise at first, so make sure there isn't a house or something at the end of the runway. Great plane. Good luck and Congrats.

Mark
I am surprised that your light setup for Swift works really well. If I were getting this plane (need to replace my batteries first, theft), I would use motor around 100 gram @kv1000, 12x6 prop and 3s 1800 for more hovering pullout. My 42" Slick is a bit heavier than the Swift but flew amazingly at this same setup.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:02 PM
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Vince, my man, thats gong to be my set up on the swift....got my turnigy 3536 today that you recommended...heads up was out so matched it close.
Question....figured on using a sf prop....ur thoughts on that?
Thanks in advance
Richard
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:25 PM
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Vince, what you're thinking is about what I have coming. One of the reasons for going to the Swift (with Yak already in hand) was to be able to use 2200's without loosing too much performance?

This is what I'm going to try. Mostly based on what I've learned with the Yak.

100g Turnigy 3536/8 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=24238)
40a ESC (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=24235)
MG14 servos (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8303)
and a 12x6e prop

The thought is to try and keep the motor and ESC as light as possible (the suggested motor is 125g) to help with the heavier battery. Just hoping the extra wing area will help make the Swift a little more "floaty"? We'll see.

My Yak is flying kinda heavy at lower speeds with a Turnigy 73g 3530/14 and 3s1600. It's pretty impressive performance wise. Vertical power is not an issue! I've only got 20 or so charges run through it. 140mm CG seems to be OK? Am to the point I'm starting to mess with the radio....

Read a lot about guys having trouble with the gear. I wrapped 2 turns of safety wire around the gear legs just below the fuse to prevent it from spreading (and blowing out the sides of the landing gear box), Ca'd a piece of lite ply (about an inch long, the width of the fuse) on the bottom of the fuse, right in back of the gear legs. That setup has allowed a ton of abuse so far. Probably condemning myself to certain doom for saying this, but I've already gone through a fair share of props getting used to how this thing flies (I'm used to gas!) and haven't even had to straighten them yet! They seem as durable as the rest of the plane with just a little TLC?
-Al
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot Fatigue View Post
Vince, my man, thats gong to be my set up on the swift....got my turnigy 3536 today that you recommended...heads up was out so matched it close.
Question....figured on using a sf prop....ur thoughts on that?
Thanks in advance
Richard
Personally, I don't like SlowFly prop for over 11" in diameter or on 300W+ motor. They are too thin around the hub that gives me no confidence in flying them for high energy stuff. APC style 12x6E is the best all around porp in this size of plane. If you don't push full throttle much, 13x6.5E will be even batter, the downsize is a reduce life on motor.

I recently start using beechwood props (Xoar, Falcon, JXF, etc) from 13" and up in my balsa planes. Those are much more efficient than the APC E prop. The downsize is tooooo expensive. Especially for flying low and reckless like I do... HK has a good selection of Turnigy ultra light wood props with great price but constantly out of stock..
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Ahicks, Man, I really should retire my Yak but funding is tie..Please DON'T let me know how good Swift flies so I will not buy one..

When I first switched to Yak 54 from Paluma and 32" Yak 55, I felt the Yak was sooooo heavy at slow and low. But the Yak serves as prefect transaction for me to get into larger balsa 3D planes. Especially at doing high alpha rolling harrier. Now I have tons of glues in my Yak and I still feel she is very floaty. So, the feels of weight are all relative.
BTW, I lost the LGs of my Yak at maiden, it just popped out in the sky and fell in the school yard never been found. I bent a new one from music wire and hot glue it into the LG mount. Never have a problem afterward.
Since most of my big batteries were stolen but still have 7 batteries good for the Yak, I will fly her a lot again.

Forgot where my CG is on the Yak. When the plane was fresh, my setup was 3530 motor, 40A ESC, 12x6 Prop, 14G MG all around and Gens ACE 1550 need 1/4 of lead on the tail to get to the neutral CG. Now after so many repairs, I don't even bother to check the CG since I don't do level flight on her anymore, keeping rolling and harrier and hover and that's what she is made for.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:49 PM
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The 1600's gave my Yak a pretty heavy front end. Don't care to fly that way either. The elevator stalls way too easy like that when you get it slowed down!

I hate lead though. If I have to add weight I try to make it functional! My tail skid was wearing quickly, so I fabbed up a free castering tail wheel. Took care of that issue. Was having trouble getting enough rudder authority so I replaced the Hitec HS 65hb with an HS 82mg. End of problem there too! Now we have wall to wall rudder, hitting the elevator on both sides!

WIth those 2 changes balance seems fine, BUT, it's heavy. Like you say though it's something I may get used to with more stick time. The lightest plane I've flown over the last few years (DLE 20 powered OMP Fusion profile) is over 4 times heavier than this foamy. That could easily have something to do with it!

Yes, I'm transitioning too! I'm having fun down to 20-30 feet altitude with the gassers. Below that you need to be pretty ballsy at my skill level - or have a lot more time and money than I do! So we're working the transition from that angle. Try to get a handle on this low and slow stuff with a foamy, THEN step back up into the bigger planes for a reality check! :^)
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:47 AM
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Keep the plane light and it will be floaty. No way this plane needs a 125g motor or even a 100g. With my emax BL2810/12 86g on 3s 1300 , it takes off within 5 feet and goes right into a verticle climb until you can hardly see it. Pretty impressive. As you wish, though.....just sayin.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:03 AM
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This electric stuff is all brand new to me, so I'm here to learn! Getting good (stellar?) vertical performance doesn't appear to be that hard? It's the slow stuff that seems to be the tricky part. Good performance while keeping it light? An 86g motor sounds interesting for all the reasons already mentioned, so I looked it up!

Headsup RC suggests that for 3D use, that Emax BL2810/12 motor has an upper limit of models weighing 30oz? I realize that's give or take and that's their take on it, but my Yak is probably right there, maybe a little over. I'm assuming the Swift will be heavier?

They also show also that the motor is pulling in it's max amperage/wattage range with a 10x5e prop. Doesn't look to me like an 11" or 12" prop would be an option, which my limited experience seems to indicate might be preferable for 3D work?

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

So all this leaves me wondering. With what little I know, the 73g Turnigy D3530/1000 I'm using in the Yak now APPEARS to exceed these capabilities while weighing 15g less than the E-Max? It's coming down with motor, battery, and ESC cold, while pulling 28a max running an APC 11x5e? (max amperage as indicated by a speed control with recording capability)

This seems to suggest THAT motor might be a good candidate for the Swift as well? I'm getting 7 minutes or so with that combo on 3s 1600's. My target is 10 minutes plus, which might be obtainable with the planned 3s 2200's?

If I'm reading/assuming something out of context or incorrectly, PLEASE tell/show me!

Thanks much, -Al
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:28 AM
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To be honest, I don't put THAT much thinking into some of my choices because I find it can bog one down after a while. So I read everything I can find on the topic, add my own thinking and experiences to it, then make an informed decision. If it works out, I pass it along for those wanting to know. If it doesn't work out, it has made me smarter I would hope. In this case, my choice of the Emax BL2810/12 makes me smile everytime I throttle up. Good luck and have fun.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Ahicks,

If you use a 3s 2200 20C instead of a 3s 1600 30C, you might see a 15% ~20% increase in you peak amp. I felt puzzled about this at beginning; a fellow flyer explained to me using garden hose as an example, you can use larger diameter with lower pressure or smaller diameter with higher pressure to achieve the same result, but the larger diameter hose will give you more spare and punch and work effortlessly. On the other hand, a 3542 KV1000 with 12x6 consumes 440w that generates 4.3lb of thrust (I did not test my 3536kv1000 motor yet), while a 3530/12x6 doing 340W/2.5lb. The difference is the efficiency. The 3542 is running 85% efficiency at WOT while the 3530 is at 60%- means more heat. If your flying style requires 250W for most of the time, you are pushing the limit on 3530 but it's nice and easy on 3542. So, to my personal preference, I would choose the biggest motor/batteries combo without too much of penalty in weight.

As for the right props on your motor, I normally will go one 1" up in diameter, same pitch or less, than recommended to get the extra punch. But I am not going WOT at take-off (fresh battery), only go full throttle a few second during the fight and will take it easy to let the motor cool down in the final minute of flight time. The 12x6 prop made a huge difference on my Yak in harrier and hover, but I know if I went WOT on KE spin, the motor would burn out in 5 seconds. Also, I like Turnigy SK series motors better, they are heavier than the C or Dseries, but are more powerful. A sk3530 is rated 340w.

To your question, your 73g motor sure is enough for the Swift. The problem is thrust/weight ratio. Especially the bigger plane has a lot of drags. And you might want the largest prop you can fit to give you more control at flying slow. Just my $.02.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:13 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated. I'll put it together, try it with both motors and get back with the results. The idea of more amperage/extra punch available with the larger pack does seem strange to me as well, so we'll play with that too. Thankfully the ones I have are about the same size (1600 vs. 2200).

Mark, I'm a retired IT guy. Crunching numbers is just something I do - without thinking much about it - and I know it makes people crazy on occasion. I know you can crunch numbers all you want, but there comes a time when the rubber needs to meet the road. In the end, the results are what it's all about! Sometimes I just have a tendency to take the long way around to get to that point? Thanks for your patience. -Al
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Al, I'm in engineering myself, and I agree about the rubber needs to meet the road eventually. In the end, the results do the talking, don't they. Where would we be without all these fine folks on here giving us a steer now and again. Anyhow, you are gonna love this plane. I use an 1800 and 2200 on occasion, so I know they will fit, although it does become a bit nose heavy.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:22 PM
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Anyone have a Swift with the stock setup? Haven't gotten around to assembling mine yet, but I was wondering if someone could recommend a good APC or other replacement prop for the eventual need, and a good battery size. I have several 2200's, but to use them would require some cutting to fit, and I'm wondering if they're just too big and heavy? BTW, I'm not a newb to flying, but I am a newb to 3D and 'serious' stunt flying. My closest venture being a micro-Stryker.
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