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Old Jul 23, 2012, 02:07 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
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Hey guys, I was browsing around today and the pic in this post caught my eye. Not the Horton, though it is a work of art, but the other one, what looks to be a Charles Fauvel AV-36 / AV-361 or maybe an AV-48. The spec page says that the airfoil is a Wortmann FX-66H159. not finding any .dat file to plug into XFLR5, searching the web I found this post that explained the system for the Wortmann airfoils which would make the FX-66H159 15.9% thick. (see attached).

What I'm wondering, was that airfoil used all the way through the wing, in the case of the 361 and 48, from center to tip? (kind of looks like it) Anyone here familiar with the AV-xx type wings and could provide any further insight into how well they might perform. I'm kind of thinking that one of these might make a good 2-3 meter project at some point down the road.

Mark

Add on - Another question for anyone that might know, was the Fauvel F4 airfoil that was used on the AV36 this one at 17%? - http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/a...ots/fauvel.gif
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Last edited by Quick61; Jul 23, 2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 07:38 AM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
3,379 Posts
Mark,can't help with the tech stuff,but you may be interested.The guys who kitted my VII-
www.nurfluegel-modelltechnik.de-
do a AV45.If you follow the links there's a good build log- 5m or so
Regards Stuart
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 10:44 AM
less is more
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United States, CA, Marina
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I recognized that AV36.....and the pilot. I spoke to him at a local aerotow. I don't remember any particulars but there were some control problems with this ship, according to him. This may speak to the airfoil selection and other features. I don't really know. As I recall, this is an ARF kit from Germany. It is certainly a beautiful model.

Kent
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 12:34 PM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
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I followed some links,read the guys life story(mine of useless info me)and found a link to a Canadian co.selling plans of the 361.-falconeravia.com.The plans are only $300!
On the site is a skeleton view of the plane-I can't see much detail on the iPad,a proper pc may pick out more.Or maybe an email could get the info?
Regards Stuart.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 01:44 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
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Thanks for the input guys. Between making that post and now i have done more reading on it my own self. From what I have read, the yellow one in the pix was having adverse yaw trouble, I also found a set of plans for a woodie 3m AV-36 over on the Outerzone web site here - http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=1751 It looks like at least this one has the thinned F4 airfoil and from what I have read the Wortmann FX airfoil was an improvement.

Kent, great pix. You guys out there on the left coast get to see all the cool stuff.

Stuart, those plans are for a full scale, jump in and fly build I believe. (still a bit steep price IMO)

I really liked the planform and might play around with it some in XFLR5 while I wait on my wood to arive. Don't think I'm too concerned with scale and would do the pod differently. I have not heard anything about the airfoil good or bad and maybe something more modern might produce a better flying wing for the scale and speed we fly at.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 02:27 PM
Herk
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Virginia USA
Joined Jun 2007
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Hi Mark - If that model has adverse yaw problems I'm not surprised.

It appears that the rudders are fixed. Some rudder coupled with the aileron control makes a big difference.

It think the issue is more noticeable on planks; and especially when they slow down to land.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 03:05 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerkS View Post
Hi Mark - If that model has adverse yaw problems I'm not surprised.

It appears that the rudders are fixed. Some rudder coupled with the aileron control makes a big difference.

It think the issue is more noticeable on planks; and especially when they slow down to land.
Herk, that is what I read earlier this morning, the yaw showed up in the landings. I also read that perhaps some 'rudder' control could be set up with the split flaps that could be used to tame down the adverse yaw. Any thoughts on how well that might help?

Mark
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 03:12 PM
Herk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick61 View Post
Herk, that is what I read earlier this morning, the yaw showed up in the landings. I also read that perhaps some 'rudder' control could be set up with the split flaps that could be used to tame down the adverse yaw. Any thoughts on how well that might help?

Mark
Mark - not a clue. The full scale Fauvels have massive rudder area. I'm sure that's the best way to mange the issue. The only reason I can think of to look for another solution is when building a wing with no vertical surfaces.

I think Kent posted videos of that model flying. As I remember the landing looked a bit awkward. Just memory though - I haven't gone back to find it.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 03:30 PM
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You have a good memory Herk. Below is a fresh video of just the AV36. He came in too hot, then circled around for the final landing. Looks like he has good control. At least I can't see adverse yaw. This is Los Banos and is famous for crashes and bad landings. Not sure why that is. Many scale pilots refuse to fly there.

Kent

AV36 landing (0 min 39 sec)
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 03:33 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
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Shiny, got ya. So if this goes any further than the computer screen, put the rudders in.

This the video your thinking of? It didn't look all that bad, but I have no clue as to how white knuckled he was.

Ken's Favel 36.mov (0 min 34 sec)


Or this one? Looks a bit more harry. (edit - Video in post above) Looks like Kent beet me to that second video.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 03:37 PM
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Your first video is Visalia. What a beautiful landing. Visalia is a nice place to fly.

Kent
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 03:45 PM
Herk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoll53 View Post
You have a good memory Herk. Below is a fresh video of just the AV36. He came in too hot, then circled around for the final landing. Looks like he has good control. At least I can't see adverse yaw. This is Los Banos and is famous for crashes and bad landings. Not sure why that is. Many scale pilots refuse to fly there.

Kent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbyh-...ature=youtu.be
Yep - that's the one I remembered
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 04:16 PM
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oops.....double post
Kent
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 02:33 AM
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TRAPLET (RC MODEL WORLD) have just published a free plan with the July issue of a 2m AV48. It's a half sized version of the same designers 4m plan.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 02:55 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhodgson View Post
TRAPLET (RC MODEL WORLD) have just published a free plan with the July issue of a 2m AV48. It's a half sized version of the same designers 4m plan.
Yup, found it - http://www.trapletshop.com/product.aspx?c=3792 and they are even offering a canape to order and mention laser cut wood.

Nice info, thanks. There is just something a bit different about the 48... It just looks right.

Mark

Just ran through the checkout procedure to find out the cost. $27.99 to my door. Not all that bad. Now all I have to so is want to really build it.
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Last edited by Quick61; Jul 24, 2012 at 03:15 AM.
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