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Old Sep 07, 2012, 05:21 PM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
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Designed for 0 camber on launch? Gotcha.

Jun
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 06:20 PM
Will fly for food
davidjensen's Avatar
Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
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Last time I flew a Neos (for about 2 minutes) I was very impressed with how it "powered" through the last part of a drifting turn in windy weather.
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 06:57 PM
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Monroe, Wa
Joined Aug 2005
353 Posts
The Neos loves the wind and can take advantage of it but just trimming. I have not used ballast in up to 15 - 18 mph winds, not needed. It can slow down like Jun said by adding camber. In really light air I can get away with 8 MM. Yes with at rudder is the way I fly and love it I really want to see what Jun can get out of the launch
Big congrats to Jun! Great flying in the T.S.!!!!
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 09:41 PM
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United States, SC, Mt Pleasant
Joined Nov 2003
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Jun,

Your observations seem to match mine so far. Once you get the rudder installed, I think you'll find it pleasant to fly!

Just do everyone knows. I did fly the Neos at the TS at the end of the third day when the wind was really high, 20 mph average with 30 mph gusts. The Neos Carbon with 3 oz of ballast held its own, slerfing nicely for 2 to 3 minutes! Just had to wait for the wind to be tolerable prior to launching so not to tip strike.

James
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 10:33 PM
hot air rises...
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Pleasant Grove, UT
Joined Jul 2005
7,641 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by G_T View Post
Try getting rid of the up camber for the launch. It should be completely unnecessary and is likely costing you some launch height by making the rotation less efficient. Launch mode, for rotation and climb, should be speed mode. The foils were designed that way.

Of course, test and see what you get! It is on the full power launches where the differences will emerge most obviously.

Gerald
That's interesting. I would have figured that any plane, regardless of foil, would turn more efficient with lift from both the main wing and tail, i.e. a bit of wing camber along with the up elevator. I'm probably just showing my ignorance
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 11:26 PM
Team Hong Kong F3K
ThomasLee's Avatar
Hong Kong
Joined Sep 2010
3,097 Posts
Jon, I think Gerald meant to get rid of the 'up' or 'negative' camber.

I have 2mm down flap and a little up elevator on my launch preset, 0mm for speed, 2mm for cruise, and 5-6mm for float right now on my light Neos @ 250grams.

Would love to hear what you think of it's flight performance when you get more time on it Jun!
I know you have a set of the B-kevlar tails, but dont' recall whether you have the most updated wings, does it have the thicker 3K carbon on the tips?
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 01:45 AM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
4,147 Posts
Thomas,

I have the all-spread tow wings.

Thanks,
Jun
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 02:04 PM
G_T
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Joined Apr 2009
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I did mis-read, thinking Jun meant negative camber for the launch. A number have tried it and I thought this was another such case. My Bad!

Positive camber is not needed either, not even for the launch rotation.

Our planes are light, with low wing loading. At launch speeds, the lift coefficient for the rotation phase is not large - it is only a fraction of what it would be if the plane were flying slowly. Since the lift coefficient is still low, the camber should be optimized for that low lift coefficient. Zone-V2 has enough range in speed mode setting that extra camber is not required. If one did play with extra camber, 2mm is too much.

Someone who is a very weak thrower (think beginner) would actually possibly benefit from some extra camber for the launch rotation, perhaps 1mm to 2mm, provided the person used an abrupt pull-up. But the stronger the thrower, the less benefit this gives. Beyond a certain point of throwing speed, it will cost launch height. Jun is not a low launcher so he would be better off with speed mode for rotation and climb.

So to keep things simple in people's minds, I just recommend using speed mode for rotation and climb. It will be best for nearly all pilots.

Gerald
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 07:50 PM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
4,147 Posts
I tried

Put some flight time on the Neos again today in calm air in the AM and some 8mph air in the PM. OK, so far, I've put 4+ hours on the rudderless Neos and that's as far as I'll go.
Rudderless. It's just not for me.
The Neos already flies nicely without a rudder and I am sure that it will only get better and come alive in all conditions if it had rudder control. Unfortunately, the stock Neos rudder got a little mangled during the Denver dust storms but I have a used Swindell rudder and it's going in ASAP!

Jun
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 05:10 PM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
4,147 Posts
The rudder was installed and programmed in last night and flew this morning...

As expected, the already great flying plane only got better. It was such a joy to have full control of the plane. It really didn't take much rudder input to point the plane in the proper direction during a thermal turn. As the conditions went from calm to 8ish mph in my, hill surrounded and turbulent flying field, the added control was definitely welcome. I also moved the CG to around 68ish when the winds picked up and I think I'll keep it there as it reduced some pitch control sensitivity.

Transmitter program now renamed: Neos-R

I would like to try MKS6100 servos next time to stabilize the ailerons. Getting too much servo play on the D47s.

Soar!
Jun C.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 05:26 PM
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703 Posts
Awesome to hear! And totally expected.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 02:30 AM
Team Hong Kong F3K
ThomasLee's Avatar
Hong Kong
Joined Sep 2010
3,097 Posts
Very cool, once you get the 6100's into the wing you can finally start to throw it!
I must resist this horde of rudder-ed planes.... rudderless rudderless!!!
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 03:07 AM
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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Sep 2008
2,463 Posts
I finally finished my Neos. Been too busy to throw it as yet. Going to local park tomorrow morning. CG will be at 73mm and weight should be 270 to 280 gr.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 08:19 PM
Fly it like U stole it
Pickle72's Avatar
Champaign, Il
Joined Mar 2008
2,421 Posts
Any updates Thomas? I need a new plane so I can wear my cool new shirt at the field

Matt
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:48 PM
Team Hong Kong F3K
ThomasLee's Avatar
Hong Kong
Joined Sep 2010
3,097 Posts
Still experiencing some delays on the CNC, we have all the custom parts for it now, in the process of assembling it and getting it ready for production. Hopefully it won't be too long now!
I know there's a number of people patiently waiting for one, I'll try my best to get them out as soon as possible, sorry about the delay guys!

Thomas
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