Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 04, 2012, 11:24 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAVProducts View Post
I have had so many gimbals since 2005, I have balanced so many helis and blades and tried vibration dampeners, messed with post processing software etc.

Bottom line, strap on a Zenmuse and be done with it. I haven't even bothered to balance a blade or even mess with the autopilot gains with the zenmuse. What for? Just fly it however you want and the raw video is flawless.

If your serious about making money doing Aerial Video then the Zenmuse is the way to go or if you want hassle free perfect video. Yes, it can be pricey, but for the professional that is cheap. For the semi-professional, when its all said and done trying to save a buck you have to look at the quality and amount of time trying to get great results with other options.

For the Hobbyist, yes expensive unless you have deep pockets.
IMHO Dj bundle S800 + Z15 and Nex camera is one of the lowest efficiency multirotor in the market.
4800 grams multirotor for lifting a 350 grams camera does make no sense for me.
More, high weight and 6S batteries make management of the multirotor difficult, you have to feed almost a nuclear plant, the 10.000 mah 6S, on the field is not easy.

One weak point of the system is the cameras, Nex5 or Nex7 are not semiprofessional cameras, perhaps for websites but in profesionnal video world they will laugh at them.
Guess you cannot even mount a good zoom lens on the Nex or the Z15 will not be balanced anymore.
So a professionall videomaker will not invest over 10.000 USD for aerial videos with an amateur camera, worst they wil not pay you for that servide. Of course a hobbyst with money will buy it for sure.

I deal with camera mounts, frames, vibrations, multirotors since 2007, and I guess I have build over 40 multirotors, I agree with you the Z15 performs very very well, more it solve the problem and the integrated HDMI coverter/transmitter is a great feature for the Nex but it is quite limited because it is dedicated only to a few cameras.

I'm quite sure that in next photo fair in Germany in the mid of September DJ will present an upgraded version of the Z15 that will fit at least Canon 5D .
I think that the S800 has been designed exactly for that .
If DJ will offer a solution for the 5D they will have success in the video professionnal market since the Canon 5D is accepted for low quality productions.

For me, the more important competitor for the Z15 is not another camera mount but a video camera, the Sony CX 730.
For videos that camera has a lot of advantages compared to the Nex series, and internal mechanical gyro stabilisation gives good result even with a only decent camera mount. No need of hdmi converter since it has a analog output.

I have work on a camera mount dedicated to the Sony CX730 and obtain good results, perhaps not so gorgeous as the Z15 but very close and the camera mount ,carbon made, will cost 8-9 time less that the Z15 .
lucamaxco is offline Find More Posts by lucamaxco
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 04, 2012, 11:38 PM
Needs more bacon!
Dolby's Avatar
United States, WI, Milwaukee
Joined Jan 2011
1,045 Posts
lucamaxco pretty much all of your arguments have been beaten to death in this thread. There are professionals making good money that would argue with you on every point you have. /shrug
Dolby is online now Find More Posts by Dolby
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:48 AM
Lost in the wind
United States, KS, Overland Park
Joined Jun 2012
205 Posts
@lucamaxco

like any industry.. you won't find one tool to do all your work.. good luck. I don't know one professional that carries 1 camera for video and stills.. or even 1 set of lens that does both all the grab bag.

to each their own tool kit.. some carry bundles of stuff, some carries less but not one.

I am the farthest from any professional at anything, but everywhere I look in any industry, the professional has a reason to carry 6 lens of the same kind, 4 extra body, several types of mics, screens, etc..

why should you limit yourself to just the S800/WKM/Zenmuse/Nex5n/7? why can you use it for just those video that can be incorporated into something. After all, most of the results are base on how good you are, less on what tools you have.

I have seen some horrible stuff on some other professional gear.. due to the user. on the other note, I have seen some awesome results out of some users that have posted.

I am sure you have a better gear, share some video's, it would be some good info to compare.
ksrimoungchanh is offline Find More Posts by ksrimoungchanh
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:50 AM
Registered User
EndOfDays's Avatar
Austria, Niederösterr., Eggenburg
Joined Jan 2010
1,384 Posts
@photoship one

Thanks, I got the point, I was not aware of that, so like always mentioned, thinking before doing (posting) helps.

@RedSky

That would be possible, but I think I will never disassemble a Z15 that far.

best regards

Ferdinand
EndOfDays is offline Find More Posts by EndOfDays
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:58 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby View Post
lucamaxco pretty much all of your arguments have been beaten to death in this thread. There are professionals making good money that would argue with you on every point you have. /shrug
If you are not just a Z15 fanboy please let me know which one of my arguments is wrong.

I have not talk about generic "professionnals" but " professional video" , people that usually use Red cameras and consider the Canon 5D a gadget.
lucamaxco is offline Find More Posts by lucamaxco
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:09 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Anaheim
Joined Dec 2011
388 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucamaxco View Post
If you are not just a Z15 fanboy please let me know which one of my arguments is wrong.

I have not talk about generic "professionnals" but " professional video" , people that usually use Red cameras and consider the Canon 5D a gadget.
There are not just fanboys on this thread. Have you looked at the video from a GH2 with hacked firmware? Pretty good results. Remember this Z15 is pretty new and it's only going to get better. The 5D in the film industry (not broadcast) is a throw away camera, so is the Sony F3, Red Scarlet, and Canon c300, hell the Red One MX isn't even being used anymore really, but a lot of folks would shoot with any of these cameras in a heartbeat. As cameras get smaller/lighter these multis will be able to lift them. The challenge is to get the weight up in the air for an extended period of time and have it be reliable and redundant, also to have it be stable and controllable. The Z15 at this point is the best out there, I would love to put an Alexa on it but it's not ready for that yet
shdwkeeper is offline Find More Posts by shdwkeeper
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:12 AM
Registered User
Australia, SA, Renmark West
Joined Sep 2011
398 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucamaxco View Post
If you are not just a Z15 fanboy please let me know which one of my arguments is wrong.

I have not talk about generic "professionnals" but " professional video" , people that usually use Red cameras and consider the Canon 5D a gadget.
If you're operating Reds then sure, the Z-15 with 5N is downmarket but there is a large market that doesn't require 4K quality - like the whole of the broadcast market, where even a 5N's output is better than the final product. And a Canon 5D is from an aerial video point of view, not just a gadget but a heavy gadget.
RedSky is offline Find More Posts by RedSky
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:28 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksrimoungchanh View Post
@lucamaxco

like any industry.. you won't find one tool to do all your work.. good luck. I don't know one professional that carries 1 camera for video and stills.. or even 1 set of lens that does both all the grab bag.

to each their own tool kit.. some carry bundles of stuff, some carries less but not one.

I am the farthest from any professional at anything, but everywhere I look in any industry, the professional has a reason to carry 6 lens of the same kind, 4 extra body, several types of mics, screens, etc..

why should you limit yourself to just the S800/WKM/Zenmuse/Nex5n/7? why can you use it for just those video that can be incorporated into something. After all, most of the results are base on how good you are, less on what tools you have.

I have seen some horrible stuff on some other professional gear.. due to the user. on the other note, I have seen some awesome results out of some users that have posted.

I am sure you have a better gear, share some video's, it would be some good info to compare.
I do not understand your argument "you won't find one tool to do all your work" how is related to my post.

I have said that the Z15 works "very very well" , I never said that my gear was better than the Z15 so your request "I am sure you have a better gear, share some video's, it would be some good info to compare" have no sense since the Z15 will be better.
The Z15 is for sure the best camera mount system for NEX cameras but have that solution have several limits, video quality first and some important features in aerial video like a good quality zoom are missing.
Anyway If you like to compare , about multirotor efficiency : my hexa with 350 grams camera and 4400mah 6S battery hover for 23 minutes .

The S800 + Z15 + Nex will not have success in professionnal video market because the choosen cameras are under the standards of that world.
But I have also said that the real target of DJ with the S800 and Z15 concept will be a key turn solution for the Canon 5D (or better) and I believe that in Photokina fair next 18th September in Cologne they will unveil it .
lucamaxco is offline Find More Posts by lucamaxco
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:32 AM
Registered User
EndOfDays's Avatar
Austria, Niederösterr., Eggenburg
Joined Jan 2010
1,384 Posts
@lucamaxco

There is no "brainwashing" in the market, if you think the Z15 is not what you need, ok. If you deal with reds, and mulitrotors for them, great, but then you know what you are doing and you do not need DJI for your solutions, this is also ok.

If you have a cam-mount for the CX 730, great, open a thread, post your results (if you want to share them), people are looking for good solutions.

Is it nice to have a "Red"-Gimbal, yes, can you make money by producing such a gimbal, I do not know, since there are not so many "Reds" out there (or people that need 4k solutions). But there are a lot of people out there (most of them are like me, so far from being a pro) who have wasted time and money (a lot) with gimbals that did not work (and dampers, and tunings, ...). If the Z15 fits into that niche, great, I think you can earn money with them.

When "Pros" complain about the Z15, you should consider, that this was not the target niche.

best regards

Ferdinand
EndOfDays is offline Find More Posts by EndOfDays
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:39 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shdwkeeper View Post
There are not just fanboys on this thread. Have you looked at the video from a GH2 with hacked firmware? Pretty good results. Remember this Z15 is pretty new and it's only going to get better. The 5D in the film industry (not broadcast) is a throw away camera, so is the Sony F3, Red Scarlet, and Canon c300, hell the Red One MX isn't even being used anymore really, but a lot of folks would shoot with any of these cameras in a heartbeat. As cameras get smaller/lighter these multis will be able to lift them. The challenge is to get the weight up in the air for an extended period of time and have it be reliable and redundant, also to have it be stable and controllable. The Z15 at this point is the best out there, I would love to put an Alexa on it but it's not ready for that yet
I agree totally with you.
I also agree when you said "The Z15 at this point is the best out there" but I will add for the NEX cameras (with all the limits of these cameras).

IMHO DJ S800 have no sense with the Z15, it would have sense with Z15 concept camera mount for a 5D while the Z15 would merit a multirotor more in balance with camera weigh.
lucamaxco is offline Find More Posts by lucamaxco
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:42 AM
Needs more bacon!
Dolby's Avatar
United States, WI, Milwaukee
Joined Jan 2011
1,045 Posts
I'm no nex fanboy, just saying this has been discussed to death. I use a wide range of video equipment. Not RED though, the market for professional video is very wide, not every one is looking for RED and 5D in the pro market. There are tons of reality tv shows, regular low cost tv shows, even some new network dramas, news, local commercials, promos, etc that would never need something like that. The Z15 and Nex/GH2 are tools and are used in the pro market daily, maybe not in the area you work in but its a wide market.

If you have an hour watch these series of videos. Might be surprised what video you like...
Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout 2012 - Part One: Starting With Darkness (30 min 16 sec)
(there are multiple parts to the video so make sure to watch the next, and next)

If your going to just continue to label people that disagree with you then you might not have a good time on this forum.
Dolby is online now Find More Posts by Dolby
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:44 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndOfDays View Post
@lucamaxco

There is no "brainwashing" in the market, if you think the Z15 is not what you need, ok. If you deal with reds, and mulitrotors for them, great, but then you know what you are doing and you do not need DJI for your solutions, this is also ok.

If you have a cam-mount for the CX 730, great, open a thread, post your results (if you want to share them), people are looking for good solutions.

Is it nice to have a "Red"-Gimbal, yes, can you make money by producing such a gimbal, I do not know, since there are not so many "Reds" out there (or people that need 4k solutions). But there are a lot of people out there (most of them are like me, so far from being a pro) who have wasted time and money (a lot) with gimbals that did not work (and dampers, and tunings, ...). If the Z15 fits into that niche, great, I think you can earn money with them.

When "Pros" complain about the Z15, you should consider, that this was not the target niche.

best regards

Ferdinand
Ferdinand what I had wished to underline is that the bundle by DJ of S800 + Z15+NEX is not a balanced solution while the S800 seems to be designed for the weight of a Canon 5D and I expect that soon they will annonce a camera support for it.
lucamaxco is offline Find More Posts by lucamaxco
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:46 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby View Post
I
If your going to just continue to label people that disagree with you then you might not have a good time on this forum.
Should I consider it a threat ?
lucamaxco is offline Find More Posts by lucamaxco
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:49 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Anaheim
Joined Dec 2011
388 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucamaxco View Post
I agree totally with you.
I also agree when you said "The Z15 at this point is the best out there" but I will add for the NEX cameras (with all the limits of these cameras).

IMHO DJ S800 have no sense with the Z15, it would have sense with Z15 concept camera mount for a 5D while the Z15 would merit a multirotor more in balance with camera weigh.
For the GH2 camera as well. The GH2 with hacked firmware is in the 50Mbps range. It's in some folks mind better than the 5D, maybe not in all conditions, but that's a matter of opinion. Even in the film industry they are using all types of cameras to get "That Shot", this is just another really good way to get a different shot and higher and stable quality than a GoPro. Also now you have a crane that can go from 0 feet to 1000+ ft.
shdwkeeper is offline Find More Posts by shdwkeeper
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 01:53 AM
Needs more bacon!
Dolby's Avatar
United States, WI, Milwaukee
Joined Jan 2011
1,045 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucamaxco View Post
Should I consider it a threat ?
Not at all, just saying your going to drive people away with that attitude. Thus having a bad time because no one wants to talk to you.
Dolby is online now Find More Posts by Dolby
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion DJI F550 Hex Build, with 2-axis NEX-5N/GH2 Gimbal... GGoodrum Multirotor Talk 9560 May 27, 2014 11:06 PM
New Product CLD 2/3-Axis FPV Gimbal for mini cameras and GoPro crd FPV Talk 9 Jul 13, 2012 10:42 PM
Discussion DJI Spread Wings S800 and Zenmuse Z15 prices are out! tpnitro Multirotor Talk 120 Jun 19, 2012 01:27 AM
Wanted 3 axis gimbal on a budget =) Vyas FPV Equipment (FS/W) 3 Mar 20, 2012 10:57 AM
New Product CLD 2/3-Axis FPV Gimbal for mini cameras and GoPro crd Aerial Photography 2 Sep 12, 2011 06:44 PM