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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by EndOfDays View Post

@neavissa
You cannot mount a 200mm lens, it simply is too big, you cannot balance a lense bigger than the 24mm Sonnar, this is the very limit (for the Nex, for the GH2 I do not know). If you want to mount a tele on a copter, you have to find another solution (different from the Z15).

best regards

Ferdinand
Ferdinand, since everyone is saying that it cannot be done, I guess it cannot be done?! Is that because people have tried it, or because they all assume that it will not work?! Looking at the gimbal, I can see that you can certainly mount the lens on to the camera! That is a fact! Now, once you have done that, is there some kind of sensor telling you that the camera is out of balance?! Or are people simply afraid to burn up the motor?!
Excuse me for being a PITA, but like I said before, I am always going for what people say is not gonna work and 80% of all the times, it did work! (it kinda makes sense if you really think about it! If everyone says it cannot be done, no one is really trying to do it... so no one really knows!).
That being said, I am not gonna ask anyone to go ahead and try it, so we can all see what happens, because it is simply to expensive to just go for it... in case something goes wrong! So I have to do it myself! LOL... What are you doing up anyway?! It is 02:16am in the morning!

thanks,

G
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 05:34 AM
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thank you all for the tip, and the tutorial was great PS1 .
I was asking about the lens because I was afraid that maybe the 16mm was to blurry in the corners. and a fish eye would destroy the final product.. guess I was wrong :-)

yes it`s a shame that the zen dont do portrait mode :\
Think I will use my F550 for this job, and mount the cam in portrait mode with an L bracket.
But also do some test with the zen after.

I could start taking a photo of the sky, tilt 20% down take the horizon, tilt 20% more down and take a photo of the ground.
then turn some degree around and do the same all over again until you are all the way around.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 07:38 AM
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I did a test, here it is:

http://www.360cities.net/image/test-vika#0.00,0.00,70.0

I tried to fix the images control point, but still there was some trouble in the pano.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 08:25 AM
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How does the Zenmuse go handling lighter cameras like the Gopro? No doubt it's been discussed before but I can't seem to find any examples of people mounting them to the Zenmuse. Perhaps there's a good reason for this?
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Griffo View Post
How does the Zenmuse go handling lighter cameras like the Gopro? No doubt it's been discussed before but I can't seem to find any examples of people mounting them to the Zenmuse. Perhaps there's a good reason for this?
is there any point to use the GoPro when the NEX is 10x better?
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neavissa View Post
Ferdinand, since everyone is saying that it cannot be done, I guess it cannot be done?! Is that because people have tried it, or because they all assume that it will not work?! Looking at the gimbal, I can see that you can certainly mount the lens on to the camera! That is a fact! Now, once you have done that, is there some kind of sensor telling you that the camera is out of balance?! Or are people simply afraid to burn up the motor?!
Excuse me for being a PITA, but like I said before, I am always going for what people say is not gonna work and 80% of all the times, it did work! (it kinda makes sense if you really think about it! If everyone says it cannot be done, no one is really trying to do it... so no one really knows!).
That being said, I am not gonna ask anyone to go ahead and try it, so we can all see what happens, because it is simply to expensive to just go for it... in case something goes wrong! So I have to do it myself! LOL... What are you doing up anyway?! It is 02:16am in the morning!

thanks,

G


Hi G,

It sounds like from all the replies you've received, that we'll have to assume that no one has tried it; so you will have to be the first. Go for it - it will add to the knowledge-base. Ferdinand sounds like an knowledgeable and accomplish guy, He is mainly talking from a practical standpoint that it cannot be balanced. In reality it can be balanced. The guys who have successfully balanced Zenmuse with alternate cameras and lenses principally do so by shifting the camera's mounting position. In your case you will have to shift until you run out of adjustment room, then you will start adding ballast weight until the CG is coincident with the pivot axes. This added ballast weight will increase the moment of inertia about the pivot. The increased MOI will then also work against you as the gimbal's slew rate will slow.

I am not particularly concerned with burning up a motor. Your flight time will be short as you try to figure out why the image is so blurry. Again, an assumption on my part. BTW - There is no balance sensor on the gimbal rather it is the laws of physics that cause an imbalanced gimbal to jitter or have unintended slews in response to disturbances.

Here is how I think things will go.

You will "successfully" balance the gimbal by being forced to add ballast weight. How well you do this partly determines your outcome

From increased MOI, the gimbal's ability to slew (while making pointing corrections) will slow

The tens time longer focal length will make the setup ten times more sensitive to vibration; this is the biggest factor in my mind. It is well known electro-optical "law". Secondarily, if DJI's pointing accuracy spec was in reality ten times better than they say, they would have published it as such and my thoughts on this would be different.


The resultant image will have lots of jitter

You will not burn up a motor

Sure these are all assumptions on my part but they are educated ones. I have written technical papers on gimbal balancing backed by 30 years of doing the same - something I am uncomfortable saying on an RC forum. That said, I go back to my first paragraph. Go for it! I simply believe that you are on the wrong side of your 80% in this case. If you succeed, I will applaud. If you fail, I will learn along with you.

Best,
Dan
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by liteglow View Post
is there any point to use the GoPro when the NEX is 10x better?
The new Black Edition GoPro3 will blow the Nex5 out of the water when it comes to video. I have the 5N and will replace it with a GP3 sadly for video use it looks like. It actually has almost 2x higher bitrate than the 5N.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sid3ways View Post
The new Black Edition GoPro3 will blow the Nex5 out of the water when it comes to video. I have the 5N and will replace it with a GP3 sadly for video use it looks like. It actually has almost 2x higher bitrate than the 5N.
people are hung up on the fov of the go pro but I'm pretty certain it is not going to matter with that extra res you'll have some many options to crop and manipulate it will be ridiculous.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by otlski View Post
Hi G,

Sure these are all assumptions on my part but they are educated ones. I have written technical papers on gimbal balancing backed by 30 years of doing the same - something I am uncomfortable saying on an RC forum. That said, I go back to my first paragraph. Go for it! I simply believe that you are on the wrong side of your 80% in this case. If you succeed, I will applaud. If you fail, I will learn along with you.

Best,
Dan
Dan:

I would be really interested to read some of your papers.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neavissa View Post
Ferdinand, since everyone is saying that it cannot be done, I guess it cannot be done?! Is that because people have tried it, or because they all assume that it will not work?! Looking at the gimbal, I can see that you can certainly mount the lens on to the camera! That is a fact! Now, once you have done that, is there some kind of sensor telling you that the camera is out of balance?! Or are people simply afraid to burn up the motor?!
Excuse me for being a PITA, but like I said before, I am always going for what people say is not gonna work and 80% of all the times, it did work! (it kinda makes sense if you really think about it! If everyone says it cannot be done, no one is really trying to do it... so no one really knows!).
That being said, I am not gonna ask anyone to go ahead and try it, so we can all see what happens, because it is simply to expensive to just go for it... in case something goes wrong! So I have to do it myself! LOL... What are you doing up anyway?! It is 02:16am in the morning!

thanks,

G
the answer to that and proof that Ferdinand's statement is true in this case is very easy:

The 24 mm Sonnar does just fit into the Zenmuse from a length perspective, any longer and the optic will block the 360 Tilt axis. Even if you think about you don't need 360 for Tilt the Zenmuse does a full rotation during power up and initialization. If you block that with a to long optic on the camera the Zenmuse will never correct work as well this might provide damage to the gimbal and camera.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 10:36 AM
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Tips for calibration of the Z15

I have now calibrated Z15 gimbals for different lenses. Opperasjonen is not particularly difficult, but there are a few things you should think about.

There are two places one must check for both Pan, Tilt and Rol axes.

1. Start with Tilt axis. This calls for first the height and then the depth of the camera.
2. Roll axis aligned to move first sideways and then the angle of the arm holding the camera cradle.
3. Pan axis aligned first on the vertical tube below the top engine mount and then forward or back at the suspension under the top engine.

Sorry my english, but I hope this can be of help.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rruiz View Post
I have all same as you... how do you switch between video and still photos? Why I canīt find it?
Rruiz, I used this : http://www.rcshutter.com/index.php?r...tegory&path=20

Hope it helps..

KS
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by oylore View Post
I have now calibrated Z15 gimbals for different lenses. Opperasjonen is not particularly difficult, but there are a few things you should think about.

There are two places one must check for both Pan, Tilt and Rol axes.

1. Start with Tilt axis. This calls for first the height and then the depth of the camera.
2. Roll axis aligned to move first sideways and then the angle of the arm holding the camera cradle.
3. Pan axis aligned first on the vertical tube below the top engine mount and then forward or back at the suspension under the top engine.

Sorry my english, but I hope this can be of help.
Hi Oylore,

1 question and 1 comment to your how to, but first thing a thanks to you for making this PDF's.

For the tilt axis height how do you find the correct position, so if camera needs to move higher or lower?

I think touching the vertical tube for PAN does not bring any balance it just change the straight forward position. If you change that, the Camera will not be accurate in FPV mode any longer.

Rrds Topper
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Topper_MUC View Post
Hi Oylore,

1 question and 1 comment to your how to, but first thing a thanks to you for making this PDF's.

For the tilt axis height how do you find the correct position, so if camera needs to move higher or lower?

I think touching the vertical tube for PAN does not bring any balance it just change the straight forward position. If you change that, the Camera will not be accurate in FPV mode any longer.

Rrds Topper
1. I start low. Raises the camera until it stops rocking the cradle back and forth. Vertical COG in the camera should be level with the suspension in the cradle. Then I adjust the camera back and forth until it's ok. Checks cameras again. After some practice, this is good after one to two adjustments.

2. If the vertical pipe is out of adjustment you will not be able to calibrate the pan properly. There is a weight shift. However, when it is 100% correct camera pointing straight ahead. Mine came about 1 degree of alignment. It was hard to see on camera but when I started with the first calibration I discovered it.

But whatever. I mean nodal point of the lens should have been in the center for cradle suspension on both pan, tilt and roll axes. What do you think about that?
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MorenoEnNYC1 View Post
I wouldn't consider using our Z15 and NEX for 360 panos, for me it's just too much work and you'll have to capture too many photos, which in turn will cause you loads of stress correcting alignment errors. One simple method of many would be to remove the Z15 and just rig up a simple L-bracket in someway directly under your multi and use a DSLR (cropped or full frame) with a fisheye lens. Mount the DSLR in portrait orientation to the L bracket. You'll rotate the enitre multi manually to capture the 360. If you want to get really fancy you can install a heli swash plate to the top of the L bracket to keep the camera level while rotating. Dirt cheap and very effective at about $10.

For this one we didn't use the 5D (full frame sensor), instead we used a t2i (cropped sensor) and Canon 8-15mm fisheye lens. http://www.perspectiveaerials.com/LucasOilSB/

You are correct, the Z15 is to much for panos. I currently do panos at ground, but will start using aerial and I have a simple gimbal for my S800 / DSLR ... I have never take an aerial pano, so as soon as I receive my compass, I will try, but why you said about "Heli swash" ? Can you help me with pictures to ilustrate me your equipment? Sounds really good !!! Congrats with the pano attached...

Thanks anticipated

Roberto
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