HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 15, 2012, 04:39 PM
Registered User
Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeeg View Post
Hummm, an interesting thought/observation/theory that you have there.
I can only speak to the WK-M, since I have not tried the CC ESC’s with any other FC controller. You may be correct in your theory that you have to be able to calibrate your radio transmitter to the FC, which of course you must do with the WK-M system. Perhaps this is why the CC ESC’s work so well with the WK-M controller?
It would be interesting to hear from others who are trying to use the CC ESC’s with FC’s that are NOT calibrated to the radio transmitter.

Tom
Ok one more piece to the puzzle. If I leave the escs plugged to naza during power on channels 1 and 2 ( regardless of which 1 of the 4 esc are connected - don't arm. But if I unplug the 4 escs from naza, let naza boot up, then plug the escs in, they all arm as I plug them in. And I can fly the quad normally.

So I may have to adjust my theory that something during the boot up is not letting escs initialize even though after boot up, the esc if plugged in at that time does initialize l

Very strange - unless there is something up with this naza - but it works with Chinese escs. hopefully others can test

Al
alros_100 is offline Find More Posts by alros_100
Last edited by alros_100; Apr 15, 2012 at 04:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 15, 2012, 05:19 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Dec 2010
11,764 Posts
Guys, the naza/esc idiocy has been known long time ago.
For some unknown reason DJI coders can't figure out how to send proper arming pulses to all escs at < 1000us (I think they send 980? or something, that's too close for some crap escs so they don't arm). It has nothing to do with CC, just keep hammering sidneyw about this issue and they will eventually fix it (fat chance).
DJI hardware is the first piece of multirotor controller in history that manages to claim "works with off the shelf escs" and screws that part up at the same time.
timecop is offline Find More Posts by timecop
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Apr 15, 2012, 07:16 PM
Registered User
Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post
Guys, the naza/esc idiocy has been known long time ago.
For some unknown reason DJI coders can't figure out how to send proper arming pulses to all escs at < 1000us (I think they send 980? or something, that's too close for some crap escs so they don't arm). It has nothing to do with CC, just keep hammering sidneyw about this issue and they will eventually fix it (fat chance).
DJI hardware is the first piece of multirotor controller in history that manages to claim "works with off the shelf escs" and screws that part up at the same time.
Interesting, thanks for that. Ya I am letting it boot up, then plugging in escs - good enough for testing but too much of a pain to keep this up

Al
alros_100 is offline Find More Posts by alros_100
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2012, 10:47 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Dec 2010
11,764 Posts
Yea, that's what most people end up doing - keeping ESC/FC on a separate power and plugging them in after FC. Dumb, and a 5 minute fix by DJI if they could only be bothered.
timecop is offline Find More Posts by timecop
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Apr 16, 2012, 12:18 AM
Registered User
Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post
Yea, that's what most people end up doing - keeping ESC/FC on a separate power and plugging them in after FC. Dumb, and a 5 minute fix by DJI if they could only be bothered.
Thanks - I will try the dual power.

with regards to performance of castle and naza - well I have to say that Castle corrected whatever the problem was with 4.0 firmware. the Esc response was very nice and in the few flights I tried this afternoon - I would have to say that it performs at least as good as the flashed firmware. So great to have additional options on the market. People can now decide for themselves regarding price/performance value.

Al
alros_100 is offline Find More Posts by alros_100
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2012, 02:06 AM
Registered User
Joined May 2010
255 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeeg View Post
Hummm, an interesting thought/observation/theory that you have there.
I can only speak to the WK-M, since I have not tried the CC ESCís with any other FC controller. You may be correct in your theory that you have to be able to calibrate your radio transmitter to the FC, which of course you must do with the WK-M system. Perhaps this is why the CC ESCís work so well with the WK-M controller?
It would be interesting to hear from others who are trying to use the CC ESCís with FCís that are NOT calibrated to the radio transmitter.

Tom
i think it just the opposite. because your able to calibrate the transmitter with the controlboard, it doesn't matter what input your transmitter gives. that is because with fc calibration, you tell the fc wich input value's of the transmitter will be -100 and 100 %. the fc itself decides wich pulses to give according to these % value's.

just my 2 cents
vinnygogo is offline Find More Posts by vinnygogo
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:06 AM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2006
725 Posts
alros 100, in the old days of multirotors game we deal a lot for arming ESCs when the signal to them came from Gyroscopes like the Futaba GY401. The show the same behaviour your describing. For that matter someones choose a second power line to power the ESCEs once the main board was armed. I tested with luck to place a FMA servobuffer inline the 2nd ESC and the gyro (what seems to be the same as placing it between the 2nd ESC and the FC). The indiced delay allows me to arm the ESCs without any other action. May be it works for you or maybe not but that an option.
elossam is offline Find More Posts by elossam
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2012, 07:27 AM
Registered User
Germany, HB, Bremen
Joined Feb 2012
23 Posts
Hallo
today i get 6 PhŲnix 25 esc and at first i can say thay have a nice quality they are realy smal and light.
tomorrow i get the programmer and than i will test them on multiwii flyduino mega it can now 1024 steps fore the esc hopefuly i can tell you a diference.
regards jan
schmuggler is offline Find More Posts by schmuggler
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:02 PM
Registered User
tkeeg's Avatar
Trenton, NJ
Joined May 2008
808 Posts
Test videos are coming soon!

It has been windy here every day for the past two weeks or more, until today. We finally had calm skies for a change and I was able to get some video in the calm conditions today before the rain started and I also got some video in the recent windy conditions. Iíll make up some clips and try to have them posted here by tomorrow night so that you guys can see for yourselves how the CC Phoenix 25amp ESCís perform in both calm & windy conditions with the WooKong-M system.
Tom
tkeeg is offline Find More Posts by tkeeg
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2012, 08:25 PM
Registered User
Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
628 Posts
Message to Castle

Folks

The ESCs with this firmware arm differently in quad mode vs airplane mode. This issue is not just related to the zero throttle position or calibration of the fixed endpoint on the radio like I was previously thinking.

Can anyone from castle look into this? confirm or help us understand.

Here is the thing -

I am using a quad flight controller - name or type is not strictly relevant.

in quad mode regardless of how I calibrated the endpoint in the Flight control board - the ESC will not arm - it just flashes red rapidly.

using the same flight control board and exact same setting but with setting the same ESC to airplane mode, It immediately arms even at various calibrations of the endpoint.

So what's the difference ?? why does it consistently and reliably arm in airplane mode but only rapidly flashes in quad mode.

edit** could this be due to "noise" on the output channel of the FC board that is being filtered in airplane mode, but with the reduction of throttle filtering in quad mode is screwing up esc arming???


Al
alros_100 is offline Find More Posts by alros_100
Last edited by alros_100; Apr 18, 2012 at 08:53 PM. Reason: another thought
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:38 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Dec 2010
11,764 Posts
Why don't you be specific about FC? Unless you have o-scope or have a way of measuring pulse width of PWM generated for motor "disarm" as well as "idle" or "run", you're just wasting time with hypothesis. By telling what FC you're using, people will know what PWM ranges it outputs etc. I would imagine multirotor firmware for CC ESC probably has wider throttle settings than airplane mode, more closer to 1000..2000us that multirotors use as opposed to 1200..1800us that most airplane esc would default to.

Why the secrecy?
timecop is offline Find More Posts by timecop
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Apr 18, 2012, 11:36 PM
Registered User
Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post
Why don't you be specific about FC? Unless you have o-scope or have a way of measuring pulse width of PWM generated for motor "disarm" as well as "idle" or "run", you're just wasting time with hypothesis. By telling what FC you're using, people will know what PWM ranges it outputs etc. I would imagine multirotor firmware for CC ESC probably has wider throttle settings than airplane mode, more closer to 1000..2000us that multirotors use as opposed to 1200..1800us that most airplane esc would default to.

Why the secrecy?
Timecop,

Thanks for your note. I am beta testing a board that is not near release, so I am obligated to not name it. I hope you can understand that. For what its worth, that board arms chinese escs without issue, as well as the castle in airplane mode.

my reasons for posting on this thread are two fold: 1) while I have never tested anything for Castle, I do like their products and am "invested" in that all my airplane and heli ESCs are castle, and I just picked up four 25amps to use for what I hope to be a reliable quad; 2) secondly, I am hoping by posting about my findings others may be assisted or forewarned if they are using these escs with non mainstream flight control boards.

back to the arming issue. unfortunately, I don't have an oscilloscope or any method to assess what you describe. so I am posting observations in the hope that someone with experience like yourself might recognize what I am describing or Castle may assist in trying to understand what is happening.

related to your suggestions on this board, I calibrated the FC with my bottom throttle endpoint at 80%; 100% and 150% (on a JR radio and spektrum receiver) and it still would not arm in quad mode (but would in airplane mode). also the weird thing is the NAZA correctly arms the ESCs on channel 3,4, but not 1 and 2 - is that what others were seeing or was it that all four would not arm?

Thanks
Al
alros_100 is offline Find More Posts by alros_100
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2012, 11:46 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Dec 2010
11,764 Posts
FC doesn't give a caress what your throttle endpoints are, at least none of the serious ones should. They should always have fixed motor outputs, and that is, between 1000..2000us, if they want to be compatible with ALL the escs on the market. This is why some (openpilot cc, revolution, mwc, etc) allow changing pulse width for disarm, idle, max, to fit for a specific ESC. This is also why some (KK, UAVP/X, maybe others) have a "FC throttle calibration" mode where they output what they think is max/min while some external condition is set (pot turned, throttle at max, etc), to calibrate ESC to their range.

What 'FC' is not near release but is going through "beta testing" in secrecy?
op revolution?
autoquad?
Y6?
the stuff from airbotix?

Anyhow, whatever it is, you either need to measure the PWM it outputs (doesn't sound like you're setup for that), or ask whoever is making it what the ranges are, or just tell them to make it configurable.
timecop is offline Find More Posts by timecop
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:12 AM
Registered User
Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post
FC doesn't give a caress what your throttle endpoints are, at least none of the serious ones should. They should always have fixed motor outputs, and that is, between 1000..2000us, if they want to be compatible with ALL the escs on the market. This is why some (openpilot cc, revolution, mwc, etc) allow changing pulse width for disarm, idle, max, to fit for a specific ESC. This is also why some (KK, UAVP/X, maybe others) have a "FC throttle calibration" mode where they output what they think is max/min while some external condition is set (pot turned, throttle at max, etc), to calibrate ESC to their range.

What 'FC' is not near release but is going through "beta testing" in secrecy?
op revolution?
autoquad?
Y6?
the stuff from airbotix?

Anyhow, whatever it is, you either need to measure the PWM it outputs (doesn't sound like you're setup for that), or ask whoever is making it what the ranges are, or just tell them to make it configurable.
Thanks for the info - I'll look into the FC outputs at zero throttle further.

one other question - is there a standard PWM range that will arm any ESC - you mentioned that the NAZA people need to adjust their range to allow this

thanks for your patience

Al
alros_100 is offline Find More Posts by alros_100
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2012, 12:27 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Dec 2010
11,764 Posts
Generally < 900us pulses will arm anything.
> 1100 will startup most. (some 1200, some < 1100).
> 1800 will be the final 'bump' where PWM becomes 100%duty and after that it'll be just commutation.

Naza sends 980, which is too close.
timecop is offline Find More Posts by timecop
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold NIP Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC $38 phoneguy Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 1 Jan 20, 2012 09:12 PM
Sold E-Flite Power 60 - Castle Creations Phoenix 80 ESC - Castle Creations 10 amp BEC moxjett Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 6 Oct 18, 2011 08:49 PM
Sold Castle Creations Phoenix-25 Brushless ESC 5478Jimmy Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 3 Sep 19, 2011 08:02 PM
Sold Two new Castle creations ESC's in package - Phoenix 45 and phoenix 25 GyroRon Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 10 Aug 19, 2007 11:07 AM
For Sale Phoenix Castle creations ESC 25's and 35's brushless stealthy Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 11 Mar 21, 2007 06:27 PM