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Old Mar 02, 2012, 03:57 PM
Cat Rack
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NY Pension fund borrows from itself to pay itself

The irrational tomfoolery of keynesian thinking reaches it's apex in this wonderful example.....cities borrowing from the pension funds to pay them.

Your wise rulers have good intentions, but that's not good enough in the real world as it actually is.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 05:27 PM
Dave?
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What happens when the money well runs dry? That will be where the fun begins.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 05:41 PM
I want to go flying!
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What happens when the money well runs dry? That will be where the fun begins.
Obviously nothing, it ran dry years ago and everything is just fine. It is fine right? I mean can't we keep borrowing forever?
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 05:41 PM
foamie re-cycler
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What happens when the money well runs dry? That will be where the fun begins.
me thinks that well already ran dry ,this is regurgitation..I wonder how many times they can get by with that before something starts smelling?
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 05:54 PM
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me thinks that well already ran dry ,this is regurgitation..I wonder how many times they can get by with that before something starts smelling?
Something already has started smelling.
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Old Mar 03, 2012, 08:45 PM
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The original article is not available unless one subscribes to the New York Times.
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Old Mar 03, 2012, 09:22 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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Google is your friend, Jim

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/ny...-it-first.html

Quote:
ALBANY — When New York State officials agreed to allow local governments to use an unusual borrowing plan to put off a portion of their pension obligations, fiscal watchdogs scoffed at the arrangement, calling it irresponsible and unwise.
If the link asks for a login, just Google and follow the proper link. Works only once.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genev...w=1090&bih=530
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Old Mar 03, 2012, 10:44 PM
Libertas in Infinitum
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when the public money is all gone, they'll find a way to confescate private pension funds to keep the public ones afloat.
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 06:37 AM
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when the public money is all gone, they'll find a way to confescate private pension funds to keep the public ones afloat.
Hell yea! Spread the wealth baby!!!
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 10:22 AM
Dave?
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Hell yea! Spread the wealth baby!!!
Nice of them to spread the wealth to their friends and spread poverty to the people that made said money...
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Last edited by RCWorks; Mar 04, 2012 at 11:00 AM.
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 10:56 AM
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If I read my pension plan figure right, last year there was a payout of $1.6 billion. There was a little over a billion income from employees and state contribution, and $2.9 billion in investment income. An unusually good year for investment, 23.8% return. Total investment fund is $14.3 billion. New employee contributions are going to go up from 8% to maybe 17.5% over time. Pension plans are supposed to make money to provide pensions which total more than initial investment. I presume this is happening here, with payouts being more than non investment income. Investment income has average better than 8% over the last 20 years. So one could think of the plan borrowing from itself to pay current pensions
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 01:46 PM
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What happens when the money well runs dry? That will be where the fun begins.
it is already dry

all they do now is play numbers games to make it look like money exists

this is all the fault of leftists
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 06:43 PM
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Here is an interesting read about public pension fund investments. It is my impression that pension funds are the largest class of investors in the market, but I could be wrong. The figure of 8% return is mentioned several places. That will double your money in nine years.

http://www.stateline.org/live/detail...ntentId=509250
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 09:24 AM
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Jim,

That article is from 2010.

2011 was the worst year ever recorded for home sales. The stock market is up, for now. It usually rises in an election year, regardless of who is running for the presidency,. 2008 was an exception due to the market collapse.

The big question with pension funds is how they will work after the US debt collapses. This is not a Democrat/Republican party is responsilbe issue either. It is GOING to happen. It is unlikely that the US will defecit spend less than a trillion a year for the remainder of it's sovereignty, regardless of who is in power, since the majority of Americans are very comfortable living in debt and spending beyound their means. Even running only one trillion dollar a year defecits the interest on the debt will be unservicable in less than 10 years.

Inflation, will most likely, make all pensions worthless at that time.
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 05:02 PM
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My figures on my pension fund were for last year. The questions you raise are not just about pension funds, but about concerns for all investors. I think your comment about Americans living in debt, and therefore being comfortable with the country being in debt are quite correct. However, I think I read or heard somewhere that the amount of private debt has gone down over the last couple of years. So maybe we are getting our heads out. Personally, I have no debt, and have not had any for maybe ten years or more.
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