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Old Mar 01, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Jim Deck's Avatar
Valparaiso, IN
Joined Apr 2005
740 Posts
Alert
LSF Members interested in ALES

LSF Members:
The LSF leadership would like to bring you up to date and get your input on a current issue. You may either: Read the attached document or go to the LSF Web site http://www.silentflight.org. If you go to the web site, under the LSF Program tab, select , then click on State of the LSF – 2012. The document describes the current state of the LSF and an issue that the LSF Board on which needs your input. Read the document, then follow the instructions to give us your feedback.
Thanks,
The LSF Executive Board
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 03:23 PM
Registered User
Jim Deck's Avatar
Valparaiso, IN
Joined Apr 2005
740 Posts
Missing document

Sorry, forgot to include the document.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 04:47 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
446 Posts
Jim,

I applaud you and the LSF Board's consideration of incorporating ALES aircraft and events into the soaring achievement program. I sincerely hope that the majority of the responding LSF members support this bold new direction as well.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 05:34 PM
LSF V 79
Joined Jul 2002
255 Posts
...
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 06:16 PM
AMA7224 LSF1832
Leadchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2008
3,459 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by superskeg View Post
It would probably be easier to completely disband LSF than to amend the SAP.
No disbanding needed. I've been on both sides of the model soaring activity both winch and ALES. This new fangle thingy is all good and finally brings a way to have consistant lauch heights that resemble winch shots.
Quote:
Motor glider folks should start their own achievement program.
If we have to but would most certainly prefer to be under the umbrella of R/C soaring's premiere association. I see no downside to the proposal as part of the regular LSF SAP with the appropriate rules in place.
I've been asking about such a SAP for a while and I would love to see this come to be.
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Last edited by Leadchucker; Mar 01, 2012 at 09:45 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 08:00 PM
AMA 3959
alstrahm's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Oct 2002
1,461 Posts
what a great idea! I fly on both sides, flying 3.7M moldies and Ava's on the winch, when I can find a place to fly in the urban area I live in. And have been heavily involved in the ALES scene here on the left coast. I think it's a great way to get new people involved in the LSF. I have seen a huge increase in interest in sailplane flying with the advent of ALES contests, the Radion class has been a huge hit all over the country. Kudos to the LSF executive Board for wanting to try some thing new!

Al Strahm
AMA 3959
LSF 6529
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 08:08 PM
Registered User
Congress, AZ
Joined Sep 2001
4,917 Posts
As I read it, in order to count, one needs to be a member of the LSF. I didn't check to see what the requirements and/or costs might be.

Can anyone supply those and post them?

Seems like a good idea to support the LSF on this, and if a person joins, comment why they joined. I will.

Gary
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 09:42 PM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
Ales/lsf

I happen to be a long time member of the LSF and years ago achieved my Level 1. I have , in my old age returned to soaring and am enjoying the ALES competitions. I have in the past year approached LSF on two occasions with regard to allowing electric, CAM equippd sailplanes to be used in the pursuit of further LSF Levels. I am delighted that this is about to happen. Ken Gregory
My vote goes for proposal #2.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 08:24 AM
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
5,547 Posts
I voted!

Curtis
LSF Level III
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 08:46 AM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
tkallev's Avatar
USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
3,123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryO View Post
As I read it, in order to count, one needs to be a member of the LSF. I didn't check to see what the requirements and/or costs might be.

Can anyone supply those and post them?

Seems like a good idea to support the LSF on this, and if a person joins, comment why they joined. I will.

Gary
Gary,

Membership in the LSF is not purchased, it must be earned.

Go to this link http://www.silentflight.org/index.ph...sf-application and print out the LSF Aspirant Application and mail it to LSF. The LSF Secretary will then mail you a Level I voucher. Fullfill the requirements for Level I and return it to the Secretary and you will have taken the first step on a lifelong journey of soaring self-improvement.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 09:06 AM
VegasRay
USA, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Oct 2005
192 Posts
LSF with ALES

Taking some words from the LSF Statement "being both older and retired" I can look back on a long career in R/C soaring. I look forward to probably a not so long continuing career in soaring with a 'winch in the nose' of my sailplanes. It is time for ALES to be recognized within LSF and I completely support the LSF Board's position.

Ray DiNoble
LSF 4096 - IV
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 09:48 AM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
tkallev's Avatar
USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
3,123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryO View Post
As I read it, in order to count, one needs to be a member of the LSF. I didn't check to see what the requirements and/or costs might be.

Can anyone supply those and post them?

Seems like a good idea to support the LSF on this, and if a person joins, comment why they joined. I will.

Gary
Gary,

Membership in the LSF is not purchased, it must be earned.

Go to this link http://www.silentflight.org/index.ph...sf-application and print out the LSF Aspirant Application and mail it to LSF. The LSF Secretary will then mail you a Level I voucher. Fullfill the requirements for Level I and return it to the Secretary and you will have taken the first step on a lifelong journey of soaring self-improvement.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 09:28 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Miami Mike's Avatar
Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
8,485 Posts
I've watched a couple of guys do their 8-hour slope flights successfully, and I've seen some try and fail. I'm aware of how difficult that task and all of the other higher level LSF tasks are to accomplish, and what almost unbelievable determination, dedication, and motivation it takes to work one's way through all of the levels and finally reach Level 5. Now I'm trying to imagine how most of those current high-level LSF members will feel if, after all of their time and effort, the rules are changed to allow propellers and motors.

No, it's way too late to change the task requirements in any way. That's now impossible to do without being grossly unfair to everyone who has already participated in LSF and worked hard to accomplish something that they can be very proud of. Don't even think about stealing that from them.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 10:50 PM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Mike View Post
I've watched a couple of guys do their 8-hour slope flights successfully, and I've seen some try and fail. I'm aware of how difficult that task and all of the other higher level LSF tasks are to accomplish, and what almost unbelievable determination, dedication, and motivation it takes to work one's way through all of the levels and finally reach Level 5. Now I'm trying to imagine how most of those current high-level LSF members will feel if, after all of their time and effort, the rules are changed to allow propellers and motors.

No, it's way too late to change the task requirements in any way. That's now impossible to do without being grossly unfair to everyone who has already participated in LSF and worked hard to accomplish something that they can be very proud of. Don't even think about stealing that from them.
They launch with a winch-we launch with a motor. Once we get to height it is the same game. Soaring.Only the launch method is different.Ken.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 11:07 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Miami Mike's Avatar
Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
8,485 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
They launch with a winch-we launch with a motor. Once we get to height it is the same game. Soaring.Only the launch method is different.Ken.
In my opinion, that's covered in Section 7- Thermal Duration Flight:

Quote:
A thermal duration flight commences at the time of release from the end of towline or at release of hand launch. The distance from the extreme end of towline, at the winch, hi-start hold-down, towman, vehicle, or towline return device to the attach point at the model shall be no more than 300 meters (984.3 feet). Tow men and vehicles shall be limited to a maximum of sixty (60) seconds from launch to towline release. Towing by means of aircraft or other airborne devices is expressly forbidden.
I don't think it's a stretch to say a motor and propeller on the nose is an "airborne device", so this rule change would allow something that was previously "expressly forbidden." My point is that it's a significant change in the rules and isn't as trivial as you're trying to characterize it.
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