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Old May 26, 2012, 04:37 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Originally Posted by Space Bat View Post
Don't see how similar design denotes same factory ??
Apologies if I misunderstood.. Anyway it's not overall similarity' it's the fact that certain details are totally identical. Explain the four little holes around the wing tube and a myriad of other little details if not that they were based on the same template.

Tim.. And how do you know that HK could not place an order at the same "world class factory" Unless EF own the factory or have an exclusive agreement then i'm not sure how you could be so certain?

Anyway.. enough of this. Whatever other planes are made at the factory really makes no difference. The Laser looks great from what I've seen so far.

Steve
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Old May 26, 2012, 04:42 AM
Some.. call him Tim...
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Because the manufacture can't pay more to build the airframe than they sell it for..


Do they still teach economics in school? EF has a very tight profit margin, because they pay extra, and use a better factory than the competition.

These are facts, and your speculating..
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Old May 26, 2012, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Semeraro View Post
Because the manufacture can't pay more to build the airframe than they sell it for..


Do they still teach economics in school?
Not sure that is called for tbh - especially when the facts are simple on this 'Knowing' that you can have a manufacturing facility making various similar products but use the following to dictate the costs...

For example...

Required DFM
Required Tooling and tolerances and specifications.
Required level/grade quality of materials
Required level of inspection quality criteria - checking 100% or SPC or no inspection...etc of goods in inspection...
Required level of production run/batch size...
Required level of setup machine run tolerance pass off criteria before batch run..
Required level of inspection criteria to quality goals accepted drop out criteria be pass, scrap, rework...
Required packaging..
Required batch ship sizes..

Plus much, much more will dictate costs from a manufacturing unit and are all costs to be negotiated when determining whether a manufacture can deliver a product to your satisfaction at the cost you want...

So yes it is highly possible that the HK product can come from same facility as a EF or 3DHS product....nothing to do with learning economics in school...whether this is the case however I don't know...
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Old May 26, 2012, 04:52 AM
Just flitting about!!
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Sorry Tim.
For the other EXP planes I would agree with you.

As for this Laser airframe you are sprouting nothing but koolaid laced gibberish mate.

It's coming from exact same factory as the recent hk offerings. Not a conspiracy mate, from the wood cuts and placement it's just a hard fact.

Unless you want to profess that different factories will use the same patterns and jigs to cut the cross members and braces and motor boxes, which even the poorly educated young people would understand!!!
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Old May 26, 2012, 04:54 AM
Some.. call him Tim...
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you guys actually think Chris is selling you Hobby King products, and slapping a EF sticker on it!!

I'm done.. this is a waste of time. Ive got a real life! have fun..
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bigroger View Post
Sorry Tim.
For the other EXP planes I would agree with you.

As for this Laser airframe you are sprouting nothing but koolaid laced gibberish mate.

It's coming from exact same factory as the recent hk offerings. Not a conspiracy mate, from the wood cuts and placement it's just a hard fact.

Unless you want to profess that different factories will use the same patterns and jigs to cut the cross members and braces and motor boxes, which even the poorly educated young people would understand!!!
This can and will happen am afraid a pattern and jig can be replicated to provide the exact same product at two different facilities and have two separate manufacturer logo's
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:09 AM
Just flitting about!!
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But in this case are you asking me to believe they would copy the hk patterns in place of their proven EXP patterns?

I just find that hard to swallow. What I think is more likely, and the fact the Chris has openly been professing their reduced margins these days that he sort out a cheaper factory to make this kit.

And as the same patterns are on the hobby king kits and it's most likely that hobbykng would seek out the cheapest factory then it most naturally aligns.

In the end though all that matters is how the fly, as we know the hk slick is tough as nails but poor in post stall, the laser will be interesting to follow!
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Semeraro View Post
you guys actually think Chris is selling you Hobby King products, and slapping a EF sticker on it!!

I'm done.. this is a waste of time. Ive got a real life! have fun..
Nobody has suggested anything of the sort.....tbh...

Questions have arose due to some of the design aspects....for which people have the right to discuss debate without having someone 'you' attempt to suggest people are attempting to suggest other...for which nobody has...

People are saying product looks similar possibly due to being produced in same factory...which on the face of it with design and possibly using same method of DFM to improve area's for build/ease of build and design improvement to structure...is readily easily to see how that assumption can be made...

Equally I am pointing out that having experience of low cost mfr there are various factors to why product A often has a rival product B incredibly turn up with very similar aspects of design...

Nobody is suggesting EF / Chris is doing anything to the manner you suggest which am sorry doesn't do little credit - unless you are really suggesting that is indeed what is happening as nobody has mentioned this possibility until 'you' brought it up?
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bigroger View Post
But in this case are you asking me to believe they would copy the hk patterns in place of their proven EXP patterns?

I just find that hard to swallow. What I think is more likely, and the fact the Chris has openly been professing their reduced margins these days that he sort out a cheaper factory to make this kit.

And as the same patterns are on the hobby king kits and it's most likely that hobbykng would seek out the cheapest factory then it most naturally aligns.

In the end though all that matters is how the fly, as we know the hk slick is tough as nails but poor in post stall, the laser will be interesting to follow!
No the other way round roger...it is more likely that the same design..and DFM's for EF have turned up downstream in other designs that don't possibly require the same level of integrity and design gates...prototype testing and subsequent iterations before product release...
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:11 AM
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I haven't seen a laser from hobby king yet!,
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:13 AM
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But the timing seems all screwed up.

And the patterns are cut to exacting replication.
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:18 AM
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I am in the dark as most people and can only speculate

But from experience - (huge unwanted stereotype (from experience)) with dealing with China they have serious difficulties in conceptualizing anything...but are damn good at taking something - having it explained and going off and replicating that thing in their thousands to the criteria you have explained and detailed...

They will take a good idea and work on it and can on occasion make it better... but it's not really their forte (another unwanted stereotype)
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Old May 26, 2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Semeraro View Post
you guys actually think Chris is selling you Hobby King products, and slapping a EF sticker on it!!

I'm done.. this is a waste of time. Ive got a real life! have fun..
I think the laser will be proof positive that you get what you pay for even though the planes may come out of the same factory.


And if you really believe your statement then the laser will have the bad characteristics that those hk planes have. Not trying to sound like a dick here eithe.
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Old May 26, 2012, 07:44 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Semeraro View Post
you guys actually think Chris is selling you Hobby King products, and slapping a EF sticker on it!!
Errr.. No.. nobody claimed anything of the sort

Regarding cost: The Laser clearly is made to a higher spec than say the HK Slick, it used G10 and carbon fibre in the structure, it's got carbon landing gear, and the hardware package will no doubt be much better. Also i have no doubt the design is better developed and flight tested. Also the price is not all that much difference once you factor shipping cost into the equation (as many are keen to point out elsewhere)

I don't think anyone is claiming that HK planes are as good as the EF Laser, certainly I'm not.. But that doesn't mean that they are not made in the same factory, does it?... And what does it matter if they are anyway?

Steve
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Old May 26, 2012, 08:02 AM
Just flitting about!!
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My point exactly Steve.
I'm sure it will be up to ef spec, but I will also like to see some mortals hover and harrier the laser for comparison to the edge, extra and MXS that we all know and love.
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