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Old Jun 23, 2012, 01:43 PM
I just need one more plane..
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Originally Posted by chucksolo69 View Post
It depends on how much experience you have with planes other than the Stratos and Champ. I would say that you get another Champ or maybe one of the offerings COX has. They are relatively small, but larger than the champ I think and look to be tough as nails. As for a TX, I started out with a Spektrum DX5e, but soon found that trimming everytime I flew different planes was a real PITA. So, yesterday I got a new DX6i and have programmed 2 of my planes into it. So far I have my Champ and Super Cub programmed. What was great was that Spektrum is having a sort of special right now. I got the TX and 1 standard RX plus 2 other AR6115e RXs free. The total cost was $190.49 out the door. Great deal I thought.
Thanks. I was actually thinking of getting that dx6i. I've read a lot of complaints about the dx5e loosing signal mid flight. Wish I could bind the firebird stratos to the dx6i. That is one awesome plane.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 03:46 PM
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kilabean,
While the DX5E lacks some of the features it is a full range transmitter. If people are losing signal their setup is faulty or they just lose control and blame it on the radio. There is a lot of that going around these days...
Gary
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 04:17 PM
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I never had any problems with the DX5e. I just wanted a TX with model memory.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 08:24 PM
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Flew mine Stratos with a GoPro video camera. Videos turned out great!. Though the Stratos could handle the weight of the GoPro... I don't recommend it except to thos experience flyers.Biggest problems I had was with lading but I think thats more to my inexperience. I have dried other lighter cameras but the video quality was not as good and since the gopro has a wide angle view the picture seems much more stable.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 12:42 PM
Sir-Crash-a-Lot
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I have a problem today. The stratos binds to the radio but the motors won't work. The rudder and elevator work but no motors. What gives?
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Firemouth View Post
I have a problem today. The stratos binds to the radio but the motors won't work. The rudder and elevator work but no motors. What gives?

Put the throttle trim all the way down.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Went out flying today. One of the planes I took was my GF Paula's Stratos. I was hesitant to fly it. The wind was blowing pretty good. With some gusts.

I fly at an airport. And the windsock there was almost straight out. Stratos handled it with easy. You could see a little wobble as the model corrected for gusts. And the landings took a little more care. But the plane flew great in the wind! Even the landings were really a non event. Takes offs easy as always.

She was not able to come with me for another flying lesson. But my Lady's plane proved to be a great windy day plane!
Wes
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 1987tc View Post
Went out flying today. One of the planes I took was my GF Paula's Stratos. I was hesitant to fly it. The wind was blowing pretty good. With some gusts.

I fly at an airport. And the windsock there was almost straight out. Stratos handled it with easy. You could see a little wobble as the model corrected for gusts. And the landings took a little more care. But the plane flew great in the wind! Even the landings were really a non event. Takes offs easy as always.

She was not able to come with me for another flying lesson. But my Lady's plane proved to be a great windy day plane!
Wes
Wind, as long as it isn't far in excess of the models max speed, won't be a problem especially at an airfield where turbulence will be less of a problem.

There's been a lot of rubbish spoken about wind and its effects in this thread. Aircraft fly in wind (relative wind) all the time without any problems. Get your average RC flyer out in anything above 10mph and they will have problems. Not because it's windy and the model can't handle it, but because they don't understand basic aerodynamics or how to avoid turbulence.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 06:17 PM
Sir-Crash-a-Lot
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Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
Put the throttle trim all the way down.
Tried that and tried to unplug, plug in the battery several times. It won't activate the motors. I tested the motors with a 3.7v battery and they are fine. The board isn't sending the voltage to the motors. Wonder what is up?
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:18 PM
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wind mainly matters when the model (or any aircraft) is close to the ground. it changes groundspeed. but not airspeed.

there is one part of the airport that has a known windsheer at times.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 07:17 AM
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For an example, assume 10 mph airplane stall speed and 5 mph wind speed.

If 1/2 throttle provides 10mph in calm air and we're heading into the 5mph wind, the airplane is performing with 15mph "air" speed. When you turn 90degrees, your speed becomes 10mph "air" speed as the wind speed effect is zero on the "air" speed.

When you turn downwind, your "air" speed becomes 5mph, 10 mph from the 1/2 throttle and -5 from the wind. In this case, you would need to advance the throttle enough to yield an additional +5mph to net 10mph air speed.

You are correct in that the airplane only cares about "air" speed. It does not know or care about wind speed or ground speed, only the combined amount of "air" going over the wing.

-- ggunners
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ggunners View Post
For an example, assume 10 mph airplane stall speed and 5 mph wind speed.

If 1/2 throttle provides 10mph in calm air and we're heading into the 5mph wind, the airplane is performing with 15mph "air" speed. When you turn 90degrees, your speed becomes 10mph "air" speed as the wind speed effect is zero on the "air" speed.

When you turn downwind, your "air" speed becomes 5mph, 10 mph from the 1/2 throttle and -5 from the wind. In this case, you would need to advance the throttle enough to yield an additional +5mph to net 10mph air speed.

You are correct in that the airplane only cares about "air" speed. It does not know or care about wind speed or ground speed, only the combined amount of "air" going over the wing.

-- ggunners
Utterly wrong from beginning to end.

An aircraft capable of cruising at 10mph at half throttle will maintain that speed upwind, downwind or crosswind. Wind (movement of and air mass) only affects landing, take off and navigation, it has no affect on aerodynamics. Wind only adds to, or subtracts from, groundspeed.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:04 AM
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Wind speed and especially turbulence can have strange effects on aircraft flight path over the ground that are hard to anticipate, though. I fly free flight planes and trying to get a consistent flight pattern on a windy day is really hard. If you're lucky, the plane will climb to a reasonable altitude, get pointed into the wind and rise even further. If you're not, the plane will go cross wind too close to the ground, get into a nasty attitude and stall.

I'm an R/C beginner, and find it really hard to separate ground speed from airspeed when I'm in control. I have an r/c glider where I can't change throttle to make turns quicker. I need to anticipate the point on the ground where i need to turn a lot earlier on a down wind leg. I have tried both glow and e-powered trainers also, and wind just adds to the complexity. Maybe advancing throttle down wind is a strategy to make turning quicker.

Learning to fly is a very personal business. If understanding aerodynamics takes away some of the nerves, very good. Getting a good start in relatively calm air is still good advice.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:20 AM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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The reason a lot of model aviators have such trouble with basic aerodynamics is because they don't have any instruction, don't bother to read up on the subject and, instead, rely on their own poor observation and reasoning skills. Of course, reality works in a slightly unintuitive way:

http://www.bmfa.org/publications/files/EUA.pdf

Quote:
BRIEFING 3 - THE EFFECT OF WIND ON THE AIRCRAFT IN FLIGHT

There is probably more nonsense talked and written on this subject than any other connected with the practical side of flying! In reality, the matter is very simple - it is just that so many people find it hard to accept.

Provided that your flying area is clear of vertical obstructions (houses, trees, hedges, hangers etc.) the wind will blow fairly steadily from a constant direction once the aircraft is above about 50ft. Below this height, and depending on the surface of your flying site and the proximity of obstructions, there will be some turbulence both vertical and lateral.

Once you understand this principle you will see that a turn from an into wind heading to crosswind will appear to be a fairly sharp turn when seen from the ground and a turn from downwind to crosswind will appear to be slow and elongated. You must accept these visual effects for what they are and remember at all times that if you have not altered your throttle setting and the aircraft is at constant height then your airspeed is constant and the aircraft is in no danger of stalling.

Once the aircraft has climbed out of this turbulent level it is, in effect, flying in a steadily-moving block of air. Thus, with a windspeed of 10 mph the block of air in which your aircraft is flying is moving downwind at a speed of 10 mph. So, your aircraft which flies at a speed of, say 20 mph will appear to be doing only 10 mph when flying into the wind (flying speed less windspeed) and 30 mph when flying downwind (flying speed plus windspeed). In point of fact your aircraft knows nothing about the windspeed at all and is flying at a steady 20 mph all the time!

You will often hear people say that their aircraft tends to climb when turning into wind and dive when turning downwind. What is really happening, of course, is that they are subconsciously trying to compensate for the apparent variation in speed and themselves causing the aircraft to climb and dive.

One major point to remember - don’t try to keep your apparent speed constant or you will find that you will have your aircraft at full throttle when going into wind and stalling when it goes downwind.

If you find all this difficult to visualise, try to imagine yourself piloting a model boat from the bank of a fast-flowing river. In this situation you will find that you can understand the problems outlined above.

When flying in a wind of any strength you will find that your model can be carried away from you very quickly when it is travelling downwind. It is essential not to let it go too far. If you do, not only do you stand a good chance of losing control because you just can’t see the aircraft properly, but it is a long and slow slog back to your position against the full strength of the wind. There is another major factor - if your engine stops it will be difficult or impossible to glide the aircraft back to your position if it is too far downwind.

So always try to keep your aircraft upwind of your position as much as possible. By doing so you will save yourself from falling into some very difficult situations.
Too many people think they know how their models fly but actually don't, and then get all cocky when they get corrected. There really is no excuse for people spreading misinformation given that the knowledge is so easily at hand via the internet.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:32 AM
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Your statement about not stalling in turns to cross wind is correct, if you maintain the plane in a stable attitude. Free flight planes with dihedral are often not so lucky, particularly in the turbulent layer you mention. R/C flyers who try to tighten that down wind turn with rudder or aileron can get into a similar fix.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DuPageJoe View Post
Your statement about not stalling in turns to cross wind is correct, if you maintain the plane in a stable attitude. Free flight planes with dihedral are often not so lucky, particularly in the turbulent layer you mention. R/C flyers who try to tighten that down wind turn with rudder or aileron can get into a similar fix.
That can only be the affects of turbulence. A wing behaves the same in steady wind as it does in still air. A wing with a lot of dihedral is no exception to this most basic of rules.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:19 AM
ODB VI September 2014
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It is a shame that more people don't start out with free flight models in the hobby anymore. When I started it was free flight,U-control then single channel r/c. Over time I moved up to 2 channel and 3 channel and then finally 4 channel flying. Switching to electrics in 1999.

A simple balsa free flight glider can teach a tremendous amount about flying and trimming. Not to mention thermals and how to read the sky and the models behavior. I started the way I did because I was a kid and that is all I could afford to do!

I used to read Frank Zaik's yearbooks. They were a real education on flight. If anyone can find some of them you will be rewarded with great reading!
Wes
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:36 AM
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OH god... not in here as well.

W/ respect to wind, Gerry is correct. The only thing steady wind affects is perceived ground speed of the airplane. If the airspeed is 15 mph going upwind, it stays 15 mph going downwind (provided you didn't actively do something to change it like throttle/altitude adjustments). Since we are piloting from the ground, we "see" a change in speed, but we're seeing ground speed, not airspeed, and airspeed is what matters for stall/flight purposes.

This is why it's bad to chop the throttle on downwind to stop the plane from "speeding up" (because it hasn't).

Back on topic - I picked up one of these this weekend, hopefully to get my wife flying with me. I checked her out yesterday (with full VI active, as a beginner would fly it), and I think itll do great. It would be hard to imagine an easier plane to fly, once trimmed out.

Absolute beginners would do well to still have someone experienced fly it for the first time to get it trimmed, as mine wanted to climb constantly (having set the trim according to the manual). The mixes work as advertised, minimizing altitude loss when banking and keeping those bank angles from getting too extreme. I held the rudder stick all the way over for several seconds, and she just pulls tight circles in the sky while losing a little altitude. That would be a fatal move in most aircraft, but you could do it for 5-10 seconds with impunity while flying the Stratos.

It's perfect for new pilots, prone to panicking and overcontroling. I wish they had planes like this while I was learning.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:54 AM
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It is a great trainer I agree. My GF Paula is learning on hers. And loves it!
And I enjoy it too. I can stand near her and talk her through the flight and rarely have to take control. She tends to let it get a little high or a little far away at times. But is getting better each flight. She is learning with it. And most importantly she is having FUN doing it!

It is one of the few ready to fly all in one packages that really does pretty much do as claimed.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 11:22 AM
Bit-Twiddler and Flyer
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Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
Utterly wrong from beginning to end. An aircraft capable of cruising at 10mph at half throttle will maintain that speed upwind, downwind or crosswind. Wind (movement of and air mass) only affects landing, take off and navigation, it has no affect on aerodynamics. Wind only adds to, or subtracts from, groundspeed.
Sorry to offend you. So, instead of me guessing what's going on, could you explain why my Stratos does what it does?

Flying in 8mph gusting 10mph winds, Stratos on high rates. Ground take off full throttle and altitude at about 50 feet AGL. Back throttle off to about 60% heading into the wind. Flying straight and level just fine.

Execute a 180 degree turn to downwind and the model starts to descend. Applying up elevator increases the descent. At the time to turn back into the wind, the airplane seem sluggish and will not turn quickly. Once back into the wind, it is flying straight and level.

If I fly the same circuit with the throttle at 100% it does not drop altitude and turns do not get sluggish. If I fly upwind at 60% throttle and downwind at 100% throttle, it does not drop altitude or turn sluggish either.

So what's up?

-- ggunners
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ggunners View Post
Sorry to offend you. So, instead of me guessing what's going on, could you explain why my Stratos does what it does?

Flying in 8mph gusting 10mph winds, Stratos on high rates. Ground take off full throttle and altitude at about 50 feet AGL. Back throttle off to about 60% heading into the wind. Flying straight and level just fine.

Execute a 180 degree turn to downwind and the model starts to descend. Applying up elevator increases the descent. At the time to turn back into the wind, the airplane seem sluggish and will not turn quickly. Once back into the wind, it is flying straight and level.

If I fly the same circuit with the throttle at 100% it does not drop altitude and turns do not get sluggish. If I fly upwind at 60% throttle and downwind at 100% throttle, it does not drop altitude or turn sluggish either.

So what's up?

-- ggunners
From the text I quoted:

Quote:
You will often hear people say that their aircraft tends to climb when turning into wind and dive when turning downwind. What is really happening, of course, is that they are subconsciously trying to compensate for the apparent variation in speed and themselves causing the aircraft to climb and dive.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=374
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:20 PM
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What happens to the side area?

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Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
That can only be the affects of turbulence. A wing behaves the same in steady wind as it does in still air. A wing with a lot of dihedral is no exception to this most basic of rules.
Gerry
Will you explain to me what happens to the side area in this case?

I realize that along the line of flight everything is the same as you said. Once you have a wind component 90 degrees to the line of flight, it must have an effect on the side area.

As you say, once turbulence starts things rocking, things get even tougher
.
Just trying to understand

Joe
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DuPageJoe View Post
Gerry
Will you explain to me what happens to the side area in this case?

I realize that along the line of flight everything is the same as you said. Once you have a wind component 90 degrees to the line of flight, it must have an effect on the side area.

As you say, once turbulence starts things rocking, things get even tougher
.
Just trying to understand

Joe
A crosswind component simple blows the aircraft in that direct, thus affecting groundtrack vector. Air still flows over all the surfaces of the aircraft in the same way it would if flying on a calm day.

A constant wind has no affect on aerodynamics.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
From the text I quoted:
I was hoping for something more actionable than "pilot error". Thanks for responding. -- ggunners
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ggunners View Post
I was hoping for something more actionable than "pilot error". Thanks for responding. -- ggunners
The information I have given you is correct and comprehensive. I even quoted respected source material. What more do you expect me to do? The fact is that a downwind component does not reduce airflow over the wing as you incorrectly stated.
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 03:44 PM
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Horizon hobby is sending me a new firebird At a discounted price.
My ESC failed so instead of getting an all-in-one board I am buying a new plane. I will replace the all-in-one board later.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
The information I have given you is correct and comprehensive. I even quoted respected source material. What more do you expect me to do? The fact is that a downwind component does not reduce airflow over the wing as you incorrectly stated.
I believe what you say. I also believed what I thought I saw. So, how do I reconcile the two?

I think that the illusion can be explained by where the model is in the pattern in relation to the pilot. My upwind leg was close to me moving left to right. If I reverse the pattern direction, I should see a less distorted view of the upwind leg as the model will be across the field from me. If the model is behaving the same, I should see the model descending on the upwind leg too.

I'll give it a try and see what happens. -- ggunners

P.S. Yes, I was wrong, the upwind leg was also descending, not straight and level.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 07:13 AM
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I believe what you say. I also believed what I thought I saw. So, how do I reconcile the two?
You reconcile the two by accepting that you were wrong. The article I quoted and linked to couldn't be clearer.

You told me the other day that you'd read the same book as me, which one was that?
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 07:43 AM
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SO anything new with anyones Stratos?

I did the elevator mod (forced) and it flies like a charm, no porpoising or any adverse effects, just is alot more sensitive or responsive to elevator movements.

I love this bird, will have to pick up one more so I can fly with my Nephew.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cr8tive_leo View Post
SO anything new with anyones Stratos?

I did the elevator mod (forced) and it flies like a charm, no porpoising or any adverse effects, just is alot more sensitive or responsive to elevator movements.
Question: do you still have the VI active with the full elevator?

I was thinking about going full width, but stopped when I considered that the VI mixes are probably 'tuned' to the partial elevator, and I want to be able to engage the VI for beginners.

Of course, I was able to get it to loop, climb, & wingover just fine out of the box, so maybe I should just leave well enough alone. This is supposed to be a 'relax and fly plane' for me (and trainer for my wife).
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