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Old Feb 24, 2012, 07:49 AM
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SETUP Q's FOR 'SCALE STYLE' FLYING

reposted here..

For you scale enthusiasts, I'm thinking of building a scale project using a 600 or 700 electric.

I currently fly pod-n-boom helis, sport style, no 3D. I'll be flying a TRex 600efl this summer. I currently run the typical -12 +12 pitch range, high cyclic-roll, a little expo, etceteras.

I am interested in Scale Style flying but I have no background knowledge regarding it.

My questions are:
Do scale flyers reduce cyclic roll and to what levels? (i.e. 40%)
Do scale flyers reduce overall pitch range?
Do scale flyers add higher amounts of expo or dual rates?
or..
Do scale flyers simply control their helis in a more realistic manner?

Your input is appreciated.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 11:59 AM
kin
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I am Kin. i am not expert but i can let you know in the fist models (normal two blades rotor head) , you have no need to make too big different in the setting , juet use the setting you are alway flying the pod /boom .just down a bit the head speed , but in the first flight thatn is check the vibration first . the vibration almost the problem you are the first to solve , if you have nothing vibration (no tail fin and tail wing ). you have successfuk 80 % in scale flying ! just let see how the head speed you can lower , 1300-1600 rpm is the best choice you are make the head speed . If the head is 3 blades . you must take the test in pod and test the setting in the flybarless system . after the setting done , you need to down some head speed , because three blades have one blades more than two blades , so you need to change the pinon gear about two teeth less . let the rpm about 1500 rpm . and check the motor hot or not .if you lower the gear and still hot in the motor . you should use a bigger about 400-500 Watt more. 1500-2000 Watt is recommend for you . (for 600 and 700 mechanic ) . i also use the Neu 1912 or 1915 . it is about 2500 Watt , and 8 s lipo . it can make very lower amper is flying , and i just use a Kontronik 65 A esc only . this setting make cool for all equipment , very confortable ! The 4 blades setting is use about 10 teeth for the (Align 600 or 700 ) . it is the lower pinon gear , but if you can find a 8 teeth . it will perfect , the head speed about 1300-1400 rpm is ok .and also check the motor static .But when you are in this head speed you must see how the tail rudder can work fine or not ? because the head speed also let the tail rubber lower speed . so i think the 130-135mm tail blades you should use . the pitch range is less when you are in 3 or 4 blades . the high pitch is a about+9 .hovering about +4 and lower -3 . the throttle curve is the best way let it idal-up in 85% (Flat curve). keep the motor in higher opower output and just control the pitch , it make the motor in high voltage and the Amper will lower and make the power system cold .Don't forget the soft-start setting !!!! Otherwise damage the gear when you start fast ! for your question
1 .Not ! depend on how sensite you like and (high head speed almost easy get vibration ) ,
2. Yes . pitch range is a bit narrow .
3.No !you can sport in your fuselage if you have no afraid and full confident and RICH ! The expo is no need but you can more confortable if you make 25-35% .my personally is nothing expo !
4 . If you can flying slow and gentle , it mean you fly scale helicopter (Beautiful and looking like scale and we see is a good" Pilot "
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Last edited by kin; Feb 24, 2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 12:17 PM
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Thank you, Kin. I appreciate the reply. I will lower headspeed, pitch range and keep practicing!
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 08:47 PM
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You might want to investigate how the F3C flyers set up for the hovering maneuvers - that set up works very well for scale:

Heavy paddles, soft teeter, reduced (from 3D) rpm and expo to taste.......plus practice.

If you are going multi blade, consider a flapping head. Rigid heads and stiff blades do not "sit" well in the hover or in slow forward flight.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamdavey View Post
You might want to investigate how the F3C flyers set up for the hovering maneuvers - that set up works very well for scale:

Heavy paddles, soft teeter, reduced (from 3D) rpm and expo to taste.......plus practice.

If you are going multi blade, consider a flapping head. Rigid heads and stiff blades do not "sit" well in the hover or in slow forward flight.
Thank you! This really helps! I'll check into F3C this weekend.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 04:23 AM
kin
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see the simple drawing for you , it is not 100% correct. but never let you make trouble
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 07:24 PM
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I really appreciate this discussion. Have any of you tried asymmetrical blades? I am building the Align T-Rex 500 based Super Cobra. I think it's a beautiful model! I was thinking if I should increase the size of tail rotor blades from stock to enable tail authority at reduced headspeed. Plus, larger tail blades would be more proportionate as well. The main blades at 465mm are nearly perfect proportion to the full scale Super Cobra.

Thanks.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
I really appreciate this discussion. Have any of you tried asymmetrical blades? I am building the Align T-Rex 500 based Super Cobra. I think it's a beautiful model! I was thinking if I should increase the size of tail rotor blades from stock to enable tail authority at reduced headspeed. Plus, larger tail blades would be more proportionate as well. The main blades at 465mm are nearly perfect proportion to the full scale Super Cobra.

Thanks.
I am currently trying them on a 600 size scale... they do not like very much pitch... I am using -4, +3, +6

Most scalers will say they don't like them because they balooming and will recommend symmetrical vs semi-symmetricals... you will have to try them and decide... I like them but I'm just one of many

You could try longer tail blades.... but on a two blade head, normally you wouldn't, does not hurt to try...
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 07:50 PM
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3 in 1 reply :)

I am also flying a 600 (well, in Spring). most guys are increasing the tail to 105 from the stock 95mm. I'm going to leave mine at 95mm, as I do not do 3D.

As for semi-symetrical, I have not tried them.

Kin, thanks for the graph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kin View Post
see the simple drawing for you , it is not 100% correct. but never let you make trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
I really appreciate this discussion. Have any of you tried asymmetrical blades? I am building the Align T-Rex 500 based Super Cobra. I think it's a beautiful model! I was thinking if I should increase the size of tail rotor blades from stock to enable tail authority at reduced headspeed. Plus, larger tail blades would be more proportionate as well. The main blades at 465mm are nearly perfect proportion to the full scale Super Cobra.

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by josereyes View Post
I am currently trying them on a 600 size scale... they do not like very much pitch... I am using -4, +3, +6

Most scalers will say they don't like them because they balooming and will recommend symmetrical vs semi-symmetricals... you will have to try them and decide... I like them but I'm just one of many

You could try longer tail blades.... but on a two blade head, normally you wouldn't, does not hurt to try...
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 09:02 PM
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I have indeed read some say the symmetrical blades are most stable in a hover. Will be interesting to see how they compare to the stock 425mm Align blades.

Looking at the power system though, the 500 comes ready for crazy headspeed for 3D. I am having doubts about the Align ESC surviving at operating at lower throttle settings than say 70%. I've been looking for a lower kV motor to replace the stock 500M which came with the ESP kit. Only ones I've found is the Scorpion 3226-1400 or the 3226-900. Other path is lower cell count. Maybe 4 cells instead of 6. Otherwise, I won't stand a chance at getting it to fly below 2000 rpm. Any of you have experience with this aspect of setup?
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 10:22 PM
kin
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semi-symmetical blades is let your models more lift-force in normal flying and you can less a little bit in pitch range,it mean the power lost is less than symmetical blades , it good in inside only , if the semi-symmetical do up-side down , the pitch need more than the symmetical blades , a lot power lost(less lift force) , so if you use same setting and just change the blades from symmetical to semi-symmetical ,you will feel it take off early and in lower rpm (it offer more lift force) , but i think about 5-8 % more , it is depend on the airfoil . if the blades airfoil is flat bottom . the rpm will lower a lot and very early to take off and very lower rpm in hovering . So if you change a semi-symmetical . you can make the high pitch (less 1-2 degree)/hovering (less 1 ) but lower pitch (-) need more , especial in windy condition , too lower head speed very dangerous in landing . so let the landing more rpm is safty .so you need more -pitch !
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 10:29 PM
kin
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Tail blades size are need more longer when you lower the head speed . 500 size mechanic also very high head speed. their gear ratio is high head speed setting . if you lower the head speed under 2000 i think must use longer tail blades .
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