HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:30 PM
AMA 3959
alstrahm's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Oct 2002
1,471 Posts
Discussion
Can we do ALES and TD in the same contest?

as, an other class? I have been working with my local club,SBSS to see if we can make this happen. But, the issue is, I have to limit ALES entrants to 8, so I only have one group, as we only have the field for 5 hours one day a month What do you guys that have fields think about doing this? Out here on the left coast we don't do a lot of MoM TD, and when we do, I would like to just launch with the TD guys with my ALES plane and complete the same task. But I don't want to leave the Radion flyers out, they are the new guys to comps we are bringing in, and want to keep it that way! Thoughts are welcome!

Al
alstrahm is offline Find More Posts by alstrahm
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:22 AM
VegasRay
USA, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Oct 2005
212 Posts
Al - here's what we will try next month as our first club contest combining both e-sailplanes and winch launch planes. We have three CAM units so we will switch between the e-planes.

The CAM will be set to 150m (490 ft) which is just about the average height on a good winch launch at our field (450 - 500 ft). We measured several winch launches with altimeters to get those launch height numbers.

The time will start when the planes leave the pilots hands, not at the top of the launch. From then on its a TD event with landing tapes. We will not do MOM for this first event but will try later this year once the e-guys get the feel for TD competition.

Most of our e-sailplane guys are more sport fliers then competition fliers so I'm not sure how many will enter this event but we need to start someplace and give it a try.

Ray
VegasRay is offline Find More Posts by VegasRay
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:15 AM
Registered User
NorCal
Joined Oct 2003
874 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alstrahm View Post
Out here on the left coast we don't do a lot of MoM TD, and when we do, I would like to just launch with the TD guys with my ALES plane and complete the same task. But I don't want to leave the Radion flyers out...
Don't forget at our SBSS event there is also the RES, 2-meter, and sportman unlimited open winch time period. Maybe the E-Radions and other sportsman E-pilots could fly in one of those classes. And as you said, the E-bigboys could go head to head with expert class MOM.

I think Ray's observation is correct for our field too Al, 200M may be higher than even the best unlimited winch planes are getting. Maybe we should measure that to see how close. But certainly an E-Radian at 200M will be way higher than a Gental Lady off the winch.

See you Sunday and looking forward to whatever you try.
Bob McGowan is offline Find More Posts by Bob McGowan
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:00 PM
Registered User
Phoenix, Arizona
Joined Dec 2008
271 Posts
Central Arizona Soaring League has added ALES and F3K to our monthly contests. We run TD, ALES and F3K just like they were 2meter, res or woody class. We have all the TD pilots line up and launch one after another. This allows for everyone to get into the air within a few minutes. After the TD pilots are down we then launch all the ALES pilots at the same time. This helps the event run faster and more fair, since everyone is flying in the same air. Then we have all the F3K guys launch at the same time. We usually change up the timed tasks for each class.

Why did we start this? We found this was the best way to get a lot of participants out for our monthly contests. It has also allowed people with different interests to see each other fly. We have started to get a pretty good cross over. A few of the F3K, TD and ALES pilots are starting to fly multiple classes. This has made for a really fun event. We a normally getting 15-20 people attending the contest.

With ALES and F3K growing rapidly I believe it's in the Club's best interest to include both flying style's.

Adam
Big Browns is offline Find More Posts by Big Browns
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:49 PM
Tailspin
Grand Blanc, Michigan
Joined Feb 2006
436 Posts
Last year we allowed ALES pilots to fly in the club TD contest just as if they were on the winch. Get in line, launch while standing beside the winch and walk to the landing zone.

We did not do a lot of club contests last year so will keep the trial going this year to determine if we score the ALES and TD together or separate.

Ray is probably correct that the Altitude should be set to 150 meters but at this point the Radian flyers kind of need the handicap over the moldies in our club. It is kind of leveling out the field a little for those just starting contest stuff.

Jack
jiafret is offline Find More Posts by jiafret
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2012, 08:04 PM
AMA 3959
alstrahm's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Oct 2002
1,471 Posts
Thanks, Adam and Jack! This was the sort of grass roots feedback I wanted to hear. I have done some prelim testing launching my 3M Grafas against a 4M Explorer and I was at least 100' higher, he was on a club winch. I have a stand alone logger from Randy that I am going to talk someone to put in their open sailplane this Sunday, or I am going to put it in my Zenith and get some real time data!

Al
alstrahm is offline Find More Posts by alstrahm
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2012, 09:59 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,710 Posts
In the UK they have a Multi-Launch Class which allows winch and/or hand towed gliders and electric Altitude-Limited gliders to compete together.

Basically winch and/or hand towed gliders are restricted to 150 Meter distance from winch to turnaround. Until this past year Altitude-Limited Gliders were restricted to the lesser of 30 second motor run or 200 Meter Launch Height. Based on their experience, the rule for Altitude-Limited Gliders was modified to restrict launches to the lesser of 30 second motor run or 150 Meter Launch Height.

Their experience before this change was that the 200 Meter restriction gave the Altitude-Limited Gliders too much of an advantage over the conventional 150 Meter Hand or Winch Tow. In the discussion which accompanied the change, they appear to have observed that the 200 Meter restriction gave the Altitude Limited Planes a very substantial advantage in very light winds and, not surprisingly in strong winds where the Altitude Limited Planes enjoyed a significant advantage in completing their launches upwind of where hand tow and winch launches would typically end up.

It would appear from their published contest results that this idea has a following there.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 12:11 AM
Gasbags & Gussets
jswain's Avatar
Riverside, Ca
Joined Feb 2009
1,233 Posts
Question for Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
In the UK they have a Multi-Launch Class which allows winch and/or hand towed gliders and electric Altitude-Limited gliders to compete together...........t would appear from their published contest results that this idea has a following there.Happy Landings,

Don
Hi Don.

Reading this description it appears all planes, regardless of launch methodology, were scored in one big group, where say a HandTow flyer could beat out a winch-launch flyer, who beat out the ALES plane,etc....(imagine the chaos if a DLG guy whipped them all)

Is that what they are doing, all scored together ?

I think goal of leveling of the launch heights was good idea, especially for morale's sake and the attempt at equality. It certainly encourages more participants this way, i like this.

thanks in advance, john s.
jswain is offline Find More Posts by jswain
Last edited by jswain; Feb 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:32 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,710 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jswain View Post
Hi Don.

Reading this description it appears all planes, regardless of launch methodology, were scored in one big group, where say a HandTow flyer could beat out a winch-launch flyer, who beat out the ALES plane,etc....(imagine the chaos if a DLG guy whipped them all)

Is that what they are doing, all scored together ?

I think goal of leveling of the launch heights was good idea, especially for morale's sake and the attempt at equality. It certainly encourages more participants this way, i like this.

thanks in advance, john s.
That's the way I read the rule. And it seems to be supported by the way they post their Multi-Launch League results. Perhaps someone from the UK could kick in here.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 03:23 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,594 Posts
Heck guys, I want to hopefully come to a day to be able to do SMOM, MOM or whatever format side by side. I again view ALES as winch in the nose not on the ground.

Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
Making wood fly since 2007
Windependence's Avatar
USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
2,543 Posts
Hi Mark,

There is really nothing preventing a club or regional contest from doing this now. Scoring it for LSF points would be more trouble than it is worth. We did all our events last summer like this and they all went off without a hitch. It was really simple, when it was a pilots time to fly they either hooked up to the line, hi-starts in our case, or fired up their motor.

Wayne
Windependence is offline Find More Posts by Windependence
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 09:35 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
458 Posts
Al,
You missed our Flying Aces contest two weeks ago and we had 13 planes on the winch and 5 on the prop. It was noted that the ALES planes were getting better altitude than the winched ones, but they also have a disadvantage with weight and that big folding prop out front. I was concerned about planes launching from anywhere on the field, but having the ALES pilots line up with the others in the winch line worked really well. It is nice to see that others have also used this approach and it is working for them as well.
awilmunder is offline Find More Posts by awilmunder
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:57 PM
AMA 3959
alstrahm's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Oct 2002
1,471 Posts
Aric, this is what I want to know, how clubs are trying to incorporate ALES into club TD contests, all great stuff! In your Aces event were any foamies flying? Because ,I don't want to leave out the new guys with foam, cuz, I want them to fly and have fun!

Al
alstrahm is offline Find More Posts by alstrahm
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2012, 11:43 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
458 Posts
I flew my Oly and I think the rest were Radians. Bob F. may have been flying his new Prelude and I think that two other new ALES planes (Omegas?) were there but weren't quite ready for competition.

I was really pleasantly surprised just how well the ALES planes integrated. Lift was a bit tough in the morning and in typical fashion as soon as the event was over, the boomers moved in and you could fly any duration you wanted.

For ALES launches, as soon as the winch line was fully retrieved, I would check with the retriever and launch. After a few seconds in the air I would start heading towards lift and clear the launch corridor so the next pilot could go up. We were all sharing the same four landing tapes, and the only concession for ALES planes was that TD's needed to land 95 or above (15 inches on our standard tape) for a wild card, and ALES only needed to land 85 (45 inches) or above.
awilmunder is offline Find More Posts by awilmunder
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2012, 10:57 AM
Registered User
United States, IN, Fort Wayne
Joined Apr 2003
1,643 Posts
Sorry if this has been covered before:

Is it OK for the ALES planes to chose their own direction during launch? That is, can they chase after lift during launch ?
Or is the ALES plane restricted to flying straight ahead during launch ? Thanks

Ray
Sky Bench ... Woodys Forever
http://www.skybench.com
Ray Hayes is offline Find More Posts by Ray Hayes
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Should we be letting certain parts fly off in a crash? or do we lock'em down? mescalinedream Micro Helis 7 Feb 24, 2012 08:20 PM
Discussion Full Scale Guys Can Do a Few Things We Can't bear_sloper Slope 1 Sep 13, 2011 11:07 PM
Discussion Would This Be Allowed In A TD Contest! Libelle201B Sailplane Talk 7 Aug 15, 2011 02:52 PM
Discussion TD Contest in Wichita / Clearview Field pmccleave Kansas Soaring Society 2 Mar 15, 2011 05:19 PM
Discussion can we do a contest please? GreenAce92 Aerial Photography 8 Dec 06, 2010 05:11 PM