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Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Roswalt View Post
I ordered one of these the other day myself - Looks to be a viable alternative to the much lighter (read: fragile) GP F-86. Glad to see the initial impressions have been mostly positive so far. How does the thrust-to-weight feel? GP's F-86 has enough power to fly alright, but it's output didn't impress me too much. A small amount more would be very welcome!

I'm really looking forward to your flight report! Are you planning to fly with or without the wheels? Also, how do the wheels attach - Are they easy to pull out if you opt to hand launch, or do they require glue?
I agree with the fragility of the GP F-86---I wish I had listened to my gut feelings and not attempted the maiden as windy as it was..I'm thinking that this plane (ArtTech Sabre) will be my windy day small jet...

I haven't put any power to the motor yet..The motor is rated for 3S---I'll first run it on 3S to see how much power it has but I'm thinking that I will be more happy with 4S like my SA MiG...

I plan on flying without the landing gear but I may maiden it with the gear on...The gear snaps into place...The mains were a pretty tight fit but the nose gear actually rocks a little forward and back in its mount..A little tweeking of the wire with some needle nosed pliers should remedy the looseness...I can see that right now the nose gear is easy to remove and the mains are in pretty tight...An added detail that I like is that the main gear doors slide into a small recess in the mount, making the main gear doors solidly attached without ANY wiggle to them at all...

Kevin
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
The wing is undercambered with a few degrees of washout noticed...Separate aileron servos are a plus---Anyone want to cut out the flaps and install a pair of micro servos????......
I'm lost on what is washout?

looking forward to the flight of this one...
I still cannot fly my GP F-86 due to our weather...
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 04:20 PM
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I'm lost on what is washout?

looking forward to the flight of this one...
I still cannot fly my GP F-86 due to our weather...
VERY simply put---Washout is where the tips of the wings are higher at the trailing edge and lower on the leading edge by a few degrees as compared to the airfoil at the root of the wing...This makes the tips of the wings stall after the inner portion, helping to delay a tip stall, or in some instances depending on the shape of the wing, preventing a tip stall...

Kevin
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 04:24 PM
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I got the chance to weigh the Sabre today on some very accurate scales...4.15 ounces without the battery...As compared to my SkyAngel MiG 15's weight of 3.00 ounces without the battery...The landing gear brings up the weight of the Sabre to 4.30 ounces without the battery...

Kinda porky but I think that I can easily get the weight to below 4 ounces...

Kevin
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 06:47 PM
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I took some pics of the rotor--It has a really nice aluminum collet to mount the rotor to the shaft of the motor...Also, a separate nose cone for the rotor...This collet adapter looks to be an ideal item for guys trying to cobble up a fan unit from various aftermarket parts...

The motor is a C-1225---For those of you in the know---Do these #'s tell you anything about the kv, besides the size of the motor???....

Now that I have the rotor off---It's time to see if it's out of balance...
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:08 PM
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I checked the balance of the rotor and it checked OK---It's so small that I really couldn't tell much difference no matter where I placed the rotor...

I ran the motor on both 3S and 4S...4S definately sounds better!!!...I took temp readings and the hottest the motor got when running on 4S was 88 degrees...The hottest the ESC got on 4S was 121 degrees...There isn't much cooling of the ESC going on with the wing off and not flying...After I shut down the motor I got 118 degrees on the motor and 114 degrees on the ESC...Ambient air temp was 70 degrees...

I'm thinking that 4S may be OK with the stock ESC...Only flying it will prove whether I'm right or wrong...

The fan has a definate low RPM vibration below 1/3 throttle---Above that and the fan runs SMOOTH!!!...I ran the fan with both the spinner on and off---Surprisingly, the fan has lower vibrations with the fan spinner on... Low RPM vibes don't bother me as I won't fly this below half throttle anyway...It's the high RPM vibrations that give me fits!!!...This plane has plenty of thrust on 4S...I don't know if I would expect much on 3S as it weighs a full ounce more than my SkyAngel MiG 15... My MiG has been Dopplered @ 70mph on 4S...

I'll have to make up adapters if I'm going to do any amperage/watt testings and readings...

Kevin
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:00 PM
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350mAh 4S pack will just BARELY fit under the canopy!!!...And you're gonna need the the weight up there as well...The plane seems to be well balanced with these packs...You could trim the floor of the battery comparment down some to give a little extra room...
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:20 PM
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And speaking of the CG---WHY---TELL ME WHY---Can't these idiot manufacturers get the CG right???.........If you balance the plane at the recomended 195mm measurement I'm sure YOU WILL CRASH!!!.......

Look at the pic...The CG designator is actually pretty close to where the CG is supposed to be....BUT---If you actually measure 195mm back from the nose of the plane this places the CG slightly behind the dark panel line in the pic---W T F???......

Anyway, the CG really needs to start @ 170 to 175mm as measured from the nose of the plane...At 195mm the CG looks to be pretty far aft even for a swept wing plane like this...
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 12:54 AM
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I checked the balance of the rotor and it checked OK---It's so small that I really couldn't tell much difference no matter where I placed the rotor...

I ran the motor on both 3S and 4S...4S definately sounds better!!!...I took temp readings and the hottest the motor got when running on 4S was 88 degrees...The hottest the ESC got on 4S was 121 degrees...There isn't much cooling of the ESC going on with the wing off and not flying...After I shut down the motor I got 118 degrees on the motor and 114 degrees on the ESC...Ambient air temp was 70 degrees...
I'm thinking that 4S may be OK with the stock ESC...Only flying it will prove whether I'm right or wrong...

The fan has a definate low RPM vibration below 1/3 throttle---Above that and the fan runs SMOOTH!!!...I ran the fan with both the spinner on and off---Surprisingly, the fan has lower vibrations with the fan spinner on... Low RPM vibes don't bother me as I won't fly this below half throttle anyway...It's the high RPM vibrations that give me fits!!!...This plane has plenty of thrust on 4S...I don't know if I would expect much on 3S as it weighs a full ounce more than my SkyAngel MiG 15... My MiG has been Dopplered @ 70mph on 4S...

I'll have to make up adapters if I'm going to do any amperage/watt testings and readings...

Kevin
Temps sound good to me bro!
crazy this esc is rated the same as the GP one
Hmmmm.... might just have to try 3s on mine!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:18 PM
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Great mini review so far, thanks Kevin. The F-86 looks pretty cool, and I guess the weight issues will be reconed with once you get it in the air. Possibly the fan will rock and the weight will be your friend for handling reasons. Over all I like the looks. I wouldn't mess with it now, but if a 40mm would fit, that would be a real scorcher 'm sure.

Fred
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 09:58 AM
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Great mini review so far, thanks Kevin. The F-86 looks pretty cool, and I guess the weight issues will be reconed with once you get it in the air. Possibly the fan will rock and the weight will be your friend for handling reasons. Over all I like the looks. I wouldn't mess with it now, but if a 40mm would fit, that would be a real scorcher 'm sure.

Fred
Thanks Fred...I'm hoping the same as you pointed out that the weight may be my friend and the fan rocks......

Speaking of the fan---I had a pretty good vibration at anything less than 1/3 throttle...Even though I don't plan on running the plane at less than half throttle for most of the flight, the vibration bothered me...Since the wind yesterday was 20-30mph and it looks to be windy today, preventing me from maidening, I removed the fan unit from the plane...A razor knife run around the edge of the front of the fan easily frees the fan from the fuselage...I took te rotor off and rechecked the balance---All is good...Since I had the fan and ESC out of the plane I removed the stock ESC and installed a 12 amp Turnigy Plush ESC...I re-installed the fan unit and ESC and fired it up...To my surprise, the low RPM vibration IS GONE!!!......

I'm guessing that the stock ESC's timing is not optimized for the small inrunner, causing a vibration due to "timing stutter" as I like to call it...Once the RPM was at a certain point with the stock ESC the motor would smooth out due to the ESC's timing being in phase with the motor...Anyway---The fan unit now is SMOOTH AS SILK in all RPM ranges and on 4S really moves a lot of air...Also, with the Turnigy Plush 12 amp ESC you can program the ESC with Turnigy's programming card...I didn't look to see what the factory defaults were for the Turnigy but I imagine it's like my others which are, as supplied, great for DF motors...

Hope to maiden soon with G6 ThunderPower 25C 350mAh 4S batteries under the hood!!!...

Kevin
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Right on Kevin!
glad to hear the motors runs nice and smooth now with the bigger esc..
did you get my PM on the 3s S.....?
oh and I did spool up my GP F-86 on 3s lastnight.. it sounded mean!
might have to fly it on 3s and hope nothin smokes
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Right on Kevin!
glad to hear the motors runs nice and smooth now with the bigger esc..
did you get my PM on the 3s S.....?
oh and I did spool up my GP F-86 on 3s lastnight.. it sounded mean!
might have to fly it on 3s and hope nothin smokes
Got the PM on the 3S Sbach!!!...Can't wait to try it...And the GP Sabre on 3S if your electronics survive!!!...Let us know what you get with the GP Sabre on steroids...Due to the tail heaviness of the Sabre 3S is probably just what the doctor ordered to remedy this problem...

Kevin
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 05:21 PM
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Got the PM on the 3S Sbach!!!...Can't wait to try it...And the GP Sabre on 3S if your electronics survive!!!...Let us know what you get with the GP Sabre on steroids...Due to the tail heaviness of the Sabre 3S is probably just what the doctor ordered to remedy this problem...
Kevin
first thing I checked with the 230mah 3s pack was the CG and it stood right at 66-67mm with no added weight to the nose
also temped it and the motor got to 97* after about 15sec, and the esc felt the same as with 2s....
your making me want this ArtTech!
give us a link bro to this bird..
thanks!
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:07 PM
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first thing I checked with the 230mah 3s pack was the CG and it stood right at 66-67mm with no added weight to the nose
also temped it and the motor got to 97* after about 15sec, and the esc felt the same as with 2s....
your making me want this ArtTech!
give us a link bro to this bird..
thanks!
The Sabre is available with both German and US markings...

US: http://www.bananahobby.com/2244.html

German: http://www.bananahobby.com/2245.html

Many are not happy with BH but I haven't had any issues with them...They are the only game in town to buy this Sabre...

Kevin
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