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Old Feb 27, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
...Having me reprogram my radio to fix your mistake does not speak well of your product team.
I agree, any three channel plane I've flown always had rudder on right for Mode two. This is totally bass ackwards.

I had some of the flight instructors try out the Albi I bought, they all said that was silly that the rudder was on the throttle stick. We were using a Futaba fm radio, and couldn't change it. They shook their heads and aren't going to endorse this to new members wanting to learn how to fly, or to start off with a new plane. It's just BAD.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by D Johnson View Post
If you go to tx-ready.com , there are programing instructions for virtually any radio for moving the rudder to the right stick. Rudder in any 4 channel plane is always on the left stick in Mode 2 which is used almost exclusivly in the US, as such, the rudder input comes from the left stick. Since many three channel users prefer the rudder on the right stick, we worked through the programing for virtually any radio available. Click below.

http://downloads.hobbico.com/misc/hc...r-conv-faq.pdf

DJ
Taking this one step further, if one looks at the Flyzone manual for the RTF albatros, which is packed with the TX-R plane, the rudder is on the right stick in the manual.

So, even Hobbico/Flyzone agrees that on a 3 channel R/E/T plane, the rudder belongs on the right stick

The TX-R planes have a manufacturing/configuration defect that should be corrected. Who do I contact for a replacement plane that is properly configured since FlyZone did not see fit to provide access to the receiver without destroying the plane?

Now, if this were a Horizon Hobby Plane, HH would be posting a notice and a program to have the planes replaced almost immediately. There is no question that HH planes have had problems, but they are super fast to take care of the issue.

Let's see what Hobbico does.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 06:07 PM
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I had been going to buy this for use with a non-computer radio but think I'll pass for now unless something changes. I'm not so sure that can correct this, at least easily.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 08:34 PM
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If you don't have a transmitter where you can change the stick assignments, it is totally useless.

I've gone so far as to put in a 5in1 board , and trash the anylink. pos. I feel ripped off, and.. as stated, in the manual it's proper, the actual product, is defective. I see a class action coming on for this.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Taking this one step further, if one looks at the Flyzone manual for the RTF albatros, which is packed with the TX-R plane, the rudder is on the right stick in the manual.

So, even Hobbico/Flyzone agrees that on a 3 channel R/E/T plane, the rudder belongs on the right stick

The TX-R planes have a manufacturing/configuration defect that should be corrected. Who do I contact for a replacement plane that is properly configured since FlyZone did not see fit to provide access to the receiver without destroying the plane?

Now, if this were a Horizon Hobby Plane, HH would be posting a notice and a program to have the planes replaced almost immediately. There is no question that HH planes have had problems, but they are super fast to take care of the issue.

Let's see what Hobbico does.
Let's cut the Drama.

Its not a "Defect"

The Brick is 4 Channel and you can plug an Aileron servo into it and can get Rudder on the aileron Channel. (or you can get a switchable tactic TX)

When I buy a RTF DR1, I'll put my Tactic TX on RCG for cheap, so atleast one unresourceful whiner can get rudder on the Aileron channel "where it belongs" and not have to resort to getting lawyers involved over a toy.

Yeesh.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
Let's cut the Drama.

Its not a "Defect"

The Brick is 4 Channel and you can plug an Aileron servo into it and can get Rudder on the aileron Channel. (or you can get a switchable tactic TX)

When I buy a RTF DR1, I'll put my Tactic TX on RCG for cheap, so atleast one unresourceful whiner can get rudder on the Aileron channel "where it belongs" and not have to resort to getting lawyers involved over a toy.

Yeesh.
OK, tell me how to do this without cutting the plane open? The receiver/brick is sealed inside. There is no access to the receiver so you can't move the servo wire.

In any case, the point of the thread is to warn people so they won't be surprised and disappointed as I was.

I have a 3 channel Hitec Neon radio with a trainer port that I could have used for this airplane, but I can't because the rudder is on channel 4.

I have a 4 channel non-computer radio that I had intended to dedicate to the Anylink module.. That won't work for this plane because the rudder is on the wrong stick and there is no way to move it to the right stick.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:37 PM
Editor - Flying Models
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aeajr, if you want to use a simple, basic 4-channel transmitter, why didn't you buy the version that comes with one? The whole point of AnyLink is to allow you to use your modern computer, any-brand primary transmitter with these models. Given that platform, it is a simple matter to mix right stick rudder control.

There is no "rudder vs. aileron" problem with AnyLink. It is simply passing signals out in the order they come in. When flying with the stock 4-channel Tactic transmitter, you are not flying Mode 2. The transmitters are shipped with the Albatros and Dr.I programmed for Mode 4 operation, specifically to give you control of the rudder on the right stick, the accepted norm for 3-channel flight as you noted. The receiver is a non-programmable 4-channel device with the aileron port unused. There is no way to know if you will be using the stock Tactic transmitter or AnyLink as one of these models starts down the production line, and the only reasonable option was to go with a standard receiver configuration.

Thayer
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Thayer View Post
aeajr, if you want to use a simple, basic 4-channel transmitter, why didn't you buy the version that comes with one? The whole point of AnyLink is to allow you to use your modern computer, any-brand primary transmitter with these models. Given that platform, it is a simple matter to mix right stick rudder control.

There is no "rudder vs. aileron" problem with AnyLink. It is simply passing signals out in the order they come in. When flying with the stock 4-channel Tactic transmitter, you are not flying Mode 2. The transmitters are shipped with the Albatros and Dr.I programmed for Mode 4 operation, specifically to give you control of the rudder on the right stick, the accepted norm for 3-channel flight as you noted. The receiver is a non-programmable 4-channel device with the aileron port unused. There is no way to know if you will be using the stock Tactic transmitter or AnyLink as one of these models starts down the production line, and the only reasonable option was to go with a standard receiver configuration.

Thayer
You are correct, There is no problem with the Anylink module. The problem is in the airplane.

And this discussion is not about solving this for me. I have a Futaba 9 C super that can get around this problem. But I did not want to use that radio to fly this plane. I wanted to to use a standard 4 channel that I have on the shelf. THAT was my target for the AnyLink module. It would be a travel package so I could leave my expensive radio home.

This would have also given me a guest plane that could be flown on my 4 channel radio while I fly on my 9C.

There is no advertised requirement that the TX-R planes must be flown using a computer radio, In fact there are standard 4 channel radios listed in the compatibility chart.. So why would I think I would need a computer radio to fly a simple three channel plane?

The Flyzone RTF planes are, in fact set up mode 2, pitch and roll on the right stick. But instead of following the standard method of doing this, putting the rudder into the aileron slot, they require cross mapping in the radio. That is just dumb.

This thread is a warning to others. You MUST have a computer radio in order to properly configure this simple 3 Channel plane.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 12:06 AM
Editor - Flying Models
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I guess it is only a problem if you want to see it as such. Could they have run the rudder servo to the aileron output on the receiver? Sure, but then folks would be whining about how you can't use the very nice micro 4-channel brick in another model without an external rudder servo.

Why not stick with the very capable 9C you currently have it set up with?

The plane doesn't actually require a complex computer radio. It flies just great with the very useable basic Tactic transmitter it can also be bought with.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 12:19 AM
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Ah, perhaps you have hit the key issue. You are saying this plane does not have a conventional receiver, but some kind of integrated brick. So,even if I could get to the receiver I could not change this. I did not realize this.

This sounds similar too the Spektrum brick.. But Spektrum does not seem to have this issue.. You can fly their three channel brick based planes on a non computer radio.

Well at least people will be forewarned about this issue on the TX-R planes.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 01:00 AM
Editor - Flying Models
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
The RTF planes are, in fact set up mode 2, pitch and roll on the right stick.
Not true, actually and, given the curriculum vitae you shared with us a few posts back, I am quite surprised you would make such a statement. As I am sure you must agree, a traditional three-channel plane with RET controls has no direct roll control and is indeed set up in a Mode 4 config, with yaw control on the right stick. Desired as it may be, the roll response is simply a coupling that comes into play as the model reacts to our yaw inputs and is induced by aerodynamic artifacts of its design.

If you really want a convenient travel package with a basic transmitter, you will do no better than to pick up the Tactic transmitter that comes in the RTF version. It fits perfectly into the box and is restrained from bouncing around. It also uses 4AA cells, so you will at most be inconvenienced by a few minutes swapping batteries before you are ready to fly instead of worrying about the charge state of the transmitter battery. The integral charger will also save you from dealing with another charger while on the road. I would sell you mine for a song, if I didn't so prefer its convenience.

As for the receiver, no one that I know of is making models this size with separate servos. Gordon Johnson posted photos of the the config here.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=335

This receiver is a 4-channel unit with ports for an external aileron servo and brushless ESC. Yes, it is a lot more capable than this model needs, and I see that as an indication of great things to come. ParkZone got around this by using a 3-channel brick in their three channel models. While you can fly them without a computer radio, it has to be their non-computer radio. Guess what. You can fly the Triplane without a computer radio as well. It just has to say Tactic on the front. That sounds the same to me, except that in this case you can also fly it with just about any current radio that also says Futaba, Hitec, JR or Spektrum on its face. Sounds like a win-win to me.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 05:29 AM
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Thayer, you raise some good points... Very well stated.

Mode 4 puts roll control on the left stick and I don't know any North American pilots flying mode 4 or looking to fly mode 4 for one plane in the fleet. So let me say this, unless you want to fly mode 4, don't buy this plane for use with a non-computer radio.

I will add that the function that the rudder serves on the right stick in a 3 channel plane is roll control, indirect or not.. It may be done through yaw/dihedral coupling, but it is still roll control for turning.

When I use yaw on the left stick on an aileron plane it is not for roll control but to coordinate the turn or some yaw based aerobatic, such as knife edge. But you can't knife edge this plane because you do not have separate yaw, it has been moved to roll control.

Taking this one step further, if one looks at the Flyzone manual for the RTF albatros, which is packed with the TX-R plane, the rudder is on the right stick in the manual.


I had not seen the combined unit from Hobbico. Impressive.

But it still nets out to the same thing. If you want to fly this plane in the standard 3 channel fashion you have to use a radio that can map the rudder to the right stick. You can't do it with a standard 4 channel radio using the AnyLink module. That was the point of this discussion.

I am not interested in buying yet another radio. I have 7 now and wanted to leverage what I have based on the anylink module. That is its advertised value, but in this case, it does not deliver, due to an unadvertised quirk in the set-up in the 3 channel TX-R planes. So I provide fair warning since Hobbico does not.

My travel radio today, for my micro planes, is a Spektrum DX5e. The Horizon Hobby planes map correctly without needing mixing in the radio. I guess I will stay with Horizon Hobby planes for this reason.

I will fly this one on the 9C.

Perhaps someone else will benefit from your suggestion of the Tactic radio, but I am not interested.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 08:06 AM
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Thayer, here is an article I did on the subject a while back. You might find it interesting. It will clearly explain my position on the role and location of the rudder.

What Goes on Which Stick?
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

If you are flying an RTF electric plane, your radio and servos are already set-up for you.
However if you are setting up an ARF or finishing a kit, you will be installing your own radio
equipment. So, which stuff goes on which stick, and why?

We usually talk about what surface is controlled by what stick. However,
that is not really the right way to look at it.

First, the control axis:

Pitch - nose up/nose down - usually controlled by the elevator or elevator function
of elevons

Roll - rotation of the wings around the fuselage - controlled by ailerons or the aileron
function of elevons.

If the plane does not have ailerons or elevons, then roll can be controlled by the rudder
or the rudder function of a V tail rudervators, depending on the design of the plane. On
rudder only planes the rudder works with dihedral in the wings, the upward slant of the
wings, to roll the plane.

Yaw - movement of the nose left or right - controlled by rudder or the rudder function if V
tail ruddervators.

Speed - throttle control

If you are in a different part of the world, you may be flying mode 1, 3 or 4. I live in
North America where Mode 2 is the standard, so the rest of this post will be referencing mode 2 control positions.

Note that I mention Mode 2, which is marked with the * below.

Left stick ...............Right Stick ..................Mode

Pitch and Yaw .......Speed and Roll ..............1

Speed and Yaw*......Pitch and Roll*..............2*

Pitch and Roll ..........Speed and Yaw ...........3

Speed and Roll ........Pitch and Yaw .............4

For a power plane, landing gear, flaps and other such functions are assigned
to switches, buttons, dials, sliders or levers, but are not defined as part of the
mode definitions.

For a two stick radio, used in mode two format, the standard format in North
America, pitch and roll are on the right stick with roll ALWAYS being your
primary turning control. Yaw and speed control are on the left stick.

Based on mode 2 it is very easy to move from a dual stick to a single stick radio
as the right, or the only stick, always have has your primary fight controls of pitch and roll.

Primary Speed control

Since this is written for electric flyers, we will assume you have an electric motor.
On a two stick radio, the speed control is on the left stick and is controlled by the
motion that goes toward you to turn the motor off and away from you to give full
throttle. For a single stick radio the throttle control is usually on the left side and
will be a slide, switch or lever.

Where does the rudder go?

Confusion often exists around where to put the rudder. Depending on the design
of your plane, the rudder can play different roles so its placement can change. On
a three channel electric plane without ailerons, the rudder is your primary turning surface.
It provides both roll and yaw control so it goes on the right stick for roll control, as the
primary turning surface. This stick also has pitch control provided by the elevator. The
rudder will work with a feature of the wings, called dihedral or polyhedral, to roll or bank
the plane when you want to turn.

What if there are ailerons, or elevons?

Primary flight controls of pitch and roll are always on the right stick, or the only stick.
If this is a 3 channel plane with throttle, aileron and elevator controls only, like a flying
wing that has elevon controls (combined elevator aileron in one surface), now where do I
put things? Think of function rather than surface and you will know immediately. Which
surface provides roll control? In this case it is the ailerons, so they go on the right stick
with the elevator which provides pitch control.

If this is a 4 channel plane that has ailerons and a rudder, the ailerons are your primary
roll control, so they go on the right stick. The rudder moves to the left hand stick to provide
yaw control, which helps the ailerons turn the plane smoothly.

If you are flying off a runway, the rudder can be very valuable as it helps control your path
down the runway during take-off and landing. If you have a steerable ground wheel it is
usually attached to the rudder or the rudder channel. The rudder, in this configuration, also
plays a valuable part during landing when we may wish to redirect the nose of the plane without
tipping the wings using the ailerons.


Moving from single stick to dual stick radios

Some people feel it is confusing to move from a single stick radio to a dual stick, radio,
however, if you are flying mode 2, it really isn't confusing at all. If you think of your radio
and your controls in this manner, there is no confusion moving back and forth between single
stick and dual stick radios or between three channel R/E/T planes and A/E/T planes or planes
that are A/E/R/T.

On a single stick radio, pitch and roll are on the single stick, which happens to be oriented to
the right side of the radio. If this is a dual stick radio, pitch and roll are still on the right hand
stick. It doesn't matter if it is a rudder/elevator plane or an aileron/elevator plane. Pitch and roll
are on the right stick, or the only stick.

Think of your controls this way and there is never a doubt what goes where or which controls
to use when you switch between radios and planes.

I hope this was helpful.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayer View Post
aeajr, if you want to use a simple, basic 4-channel transmitter, why didn't you buy the version that comes with one? The whole point of AnyLink is to allow you to use your modern computer,...
Incorrect. They made it to use with any radio out there so you wouldn't have to buy another transmitter. Older Futaba fm radios come with the square trainer port. The same cable that is supplied with Anylink, you CANNOT change the assignments on the radio at all if you use an older fm style tx from futaba.

Why should I be forced to use anything else, other than what I already have? Or anyone else has? ludicrous.





I bought it to use with that, it's useless with it.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 09:42 AM
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BTW you can also get adapters for the round trainer port used with older Futaba and Hitec radios, both standard radios and computer radios.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...Anylink+cables

Look guys, it is clear that Hobbico thinks this is just fine.

I am not trying to trash this plane or Hobbico or the AnyLink system. I think this is a very cool idea. That is why I bought into it, put my money down and took my chances ... and was disapponted.

What I am trying to do is prevent people from buying this stuff without knowing it has limitations that are not stated on the box, in the manual or on the web sites.

If you want to fly this plane, and I expect the micro cub and any other of the 3 channel TX-R planes, you MUST have a computer radio to get the stick mappings correct.

That is the point. At this time I would expect that Hobbico is not going to change the plane since I have learned that they have been shipping it this way since 2010. When it was a RTF they masked it by mapping it in the radio. (strange approach) But now that it is TX-R this is not going to work unless you do the same with your computer radio.

Based on the mapping in the current receiver brick, I would expect that you could not use this brick to produce a 3 channel elevon plane. The channel mappings are wrong.

It is clear that Hobbico feels this is just fine, but they don't tell you in advance.
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