HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jul 09, 2012, 12:50 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2008
1,649 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kin View Post
Yes ! we have no extra weight (lead matel ) in the blades , we are special use a hard wood to keep the blades have a weight for stable flying . but i can let you know now new generation flybarless system are working with the mutil blades head very very well . so the flying characteristics we are very diffcult to feel and it hold your models very stable event strong wing and light wing and light blades and weighted blades . If you use smartmodel scale carbon blades in a normal head (no flyberless system ) . you need make a little higher head speed , because it is too light in this blades .But my customer also use it in flyberless system and mutil blades head . so we have no need add the extra weight . and this (light blades can offer more flight time and loading is less . it is semi-sysmmetical . , it can let you fly more longer time and less the pitch angle to grain the lift force . i have some test piolt testing it . so they will post here and you can read here . we have many topic about scale blades head , parts . tail drive system........fuselage , photo video,....so very happy here in RCG !
A lot of bad assumptions in that post. They show that you do not fully understand how an R/C model heli rotor system creates lift and or other forces that are of consequence, and how their rotor blades should differ from full scale because of that.

First: "you need make a little higher head speed (due to the lighter weight of the blade)" The weight of the blade does not effect the amount of lift that a blade generates, but rotor speed does. If your blade (for whatever reason) requires more head speed to develop the same lift as another, then it is less efficient.

Second: In any rotor system, flybared or flybarless, the total weight of the blade is not relative to how the pitch (relative angle of attack) effect the dynamic stability of the blade. It is much more related to the chordwise and spanwise CofG's, relative to the center of lift of the airfoil used.

Third: The blade weight also has less to do with the dynamic stability of the rotor blade, compared to how much the blade leads or lags in flight effects it.

Fourth: "lighter blades can offer more flight time.." Again the weight has very little to do with this. In fact if your blades have to turn faster to create the same lift, compared to another blade, then that higher speed will be far more prone to require more power then on the one that spins at a lower head speed in order to do so.

The only place where weight can require extra power to turn a rotor (effect flight time) is in spooling up. Here a heavier head will require a very slight increase in power for a relatively short period of time.

As helis are set-up to fly at a constant rotor speed, once they are up to speed, it takes very little power to drive the rotors. From then on, it is the collective and cyclic pitches, along with the tail rotor requirements, that will make any extra demands on power, which in turn will effect flight time. In the overall scheme of things, even these do not effect flight times near as much as people seem to think.

Fifth: "it is semi-sysmmetical . , it can let you fly more longer time and less the pitch angle to grain the lift force." Yes, a semi will let you fly right side up (scale flying) while using less pitch, but it may also result in higher drag. It is the overall drag that dictates what power is being used to turn ANY rotor at a given speed and pitch setting.

If you did enough research and development, you will find that there are many fully symmetrical rotor blade airfoils that will present LESS drag, at the higher pitch they may need to fly your heli, then your semi-symmetrical blades. So these FULLY symmetrical ones will result in longer flight times!

Also of note, is that at the end of the day, the heavier, properly designed and fully symmetrical blade will provide more stable flight in winds, better tracking in fast forward flight, far more energy for auto-rotations and more consistent control response through all phases of the auto-rotation, then would your lighter semi-symmetrical blades.

What blades would I want for my scale heli? A properly weighted blade, that would result in the spanwise and chordwise CG's being located where they insured the blades did not lead or lag while in flight, had an efficient lift to drag ratio airfoil and tips (semi or fully symmetrical but preferably fully symmetrical for the consistent control feel they provide, at all rotor speeds and pitch settings) and where colored in the colors the real, full sale, helis are.
rotoraddict is offline Find More Posts by rotoraddict
Last edited by rotoraddict; Jul 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Spelling and better sentence structure
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 10, 2012, 10:23 AM
kin
Registered User
Joined Sep 2007
3,186 Posts
Thankyou for the commend . that is the information we like to know from you and some member . The scale rotor blades we have now in hand and products line are stop and have meeting now . The weight are add to the blades let the c/g and flying preformanace improve . it is the first we are changing now . And other factor (safty wire ) also make decision add to the blades , because the lead(weight) is important in flying preformance we understand it , In the fist batch we have use hard wood to let it more weight , it is a idea keep no lead weight and not too light weight . But we have conside add the weight (lead). But we set the safty in first , so that batch we use hard wood for inside meterial . because i have experience to make the same (Kalt helicopter blades when i was 18 years old ) .I fly my first helicopter Baron -50 .because i have no gyro in the heli , i crash it many time , but i can't affortable to buy new blades , so i make my copy wooden blades . So i know the wood meterial , but it is a history ! Forget it ! Back to the 2012 , ok ! the coming blades is weighed and safty wire build- in the blades . Anyway we are extremely happy you offer the commend . we can make the blades as best as possible . and reasonable cost .! Any commend post here that is weclome . even bad or good , we are no problem . please feel free post here , Smartmodel is a responsibility company .improve is a part of factory life .
kin is offline Find More Posts by kin
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 12:06 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kin View Post
Thankyou for the commend . that is the information we like to know from you and some member . The scale rotor blades we have now in hand and products line are stop and have meeting now . The weight are add to the blades let the c/g and flying preformanace improve . it is the first we are changing now . And other factor (safty wire ) also make decision add to the blades , because the lead(weight) is important in flying preformance we understand it , In the fist batch we have use hard wood to let it more weight , it is a idea keep no lead weight and not too light weight . But we have conside add the weight (lead). But we set the safty in first , so that batch we use hard wood for inside meterial . because i have experience to make the same (Kalt helicopter blades when i was 18 years old ) .I fly my first helicopter Baron -50 .because i have no gyro in the heli , i crash it many time , but i can't affortable to buy new blades , so i make my copy wooden blades . So i know the wood meterial , but it is a history ! Forget it ! Back to the 2012 , ok ! the coming blades is weighed and safty wire build- in the blades . Anyway we are extremely happy you offer the commend . we can make the blades as best as possible . and reasonable cost .! Any commend post here that is weclome . even bad or good , we are no problem . please feel free post here , Smartmodel is a responsibility company .improve is a part of factory life .
So what you are saying, is that you are willing to promote and sell improperly designed blades here in a forum and to use others to buy them and to be the beta testers, and to use others to teach you how to properly design the blades, all the while selling the bad ones to unsuspecting consumers.

IMHO, that should not be the way any manufacturer of such potentially dangerous items such as RC heli rotor blades should operate.

Part & parcel of the end price from legitimate manufactures is te cost of paying knowledgeable designers (sush as rotoraddict) for their knowledge & paying people who are very experienced as test pilots to run their blades through specific test to insure their safety and performance over a relatively long term (usually many hundreds of flights). This is why top blades usually cost more then bargain blades.

IMHO, manufacturing blades, and selling them to the unwary consumer, as you seem happy to do, leaves me to question the worthiness, of any other products Smartmodels sell, for sale the open market.

When you say "improve is a part of factory life", I agree, but that does not mean one should sell blades that are not properly designed and tested before being mass produced in the fatory.
GyroMan is offline Find More Posts by GyroMan
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 01:25 PM
kin
Registered User
Joined Sep 2007
3,186 Posts
Just let scale heli customer understand , this is you look i post here is new thing and deveople just some month , but the worker ,meterial. mold , worker skill . production technical is not new thing for me . the worker is from a blades factory that is doing the 3-D blades from a Taiwan helicopter company (now is the largest one i think ) . the worker have some years experience do the 3-D rotor blades and doing some band name (oem )order . they doing over 5 band name rotor blades in market .and we just do the lower speed scale blades and we recommend the head speed below 1800rpm .if multi blades head over 1800 rpm . it is too high for scale flying , so the strength of the blades is (safty) . just this first products is too light 90g . But we still keep safty in first . Blades grip is extrmemly strong . we special make stronger and very carefully to build this blades , The main point is no weight add and the customer feel too light for flying in windy condition , but it is not make risk to customer . just too light in the preformance .But anyway we let the blades to better preformance is no problem for us .i also fly helicopter too . i will post the flying video and other test pilot video soon . Confident is need build -up with time . we are understand the situation .But we make the blades safty anytime .
kin is offline Find More Posts by kin
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by kin; Jul 12, 2012 at 07:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2012, 09:21 AM
kin
Registered User
Joined Sep 2007
3,186 Posts
New rotor blades is weight version now , total weight 115 g with injection mold lead build-in a 0.8mm steel wire from tip to blade grip and around in the blades grip hole . So it is 100% confident and Matt black colour is coming soon . Now we have stop this first version and new version will come out later ! We will make the safty line higher than standard . and we will have enought time for testing the products .
kin is offline Find More Posts by kin
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by kin; Jul 12, 2012 at 09:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 13, 2012, 12:11 PM
Registered User
Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Joined Apr 2000
1,756 Posts
Watching with interest..........
teamdavey is online now Find More Posts by teamdavey
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 14, 2012, 03:10 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2012
221 Posts
the blades you sent me were completely unblalanced. i checked them yesterday,

92g, 91g, 94g, 93.1g

jokes.
JayNZ is offline Find More Posts by JayNZ
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 22, 2012, 02:06 PM
Registered User
Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Nov 2010
156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kin View Post
Dear James BC !
First 1000 time sorry the missing reply ! I think many friend here know i just 6 hours sleep a day since 2009 till today . still very less sleep . full time in the products line and crazy to develope the models . Some time missing the massage is my big problem . and memeory also very bad ! it is true ! So please e mail me and sent you a free set 4piece to testing ! just let me a e mail sent you the blades this week ! just let me the shipping is ok .
Glad I didn't hold my breath tell this happened! Wonder what excuse will be used for not sending them as stated he would!
JamesBC is offline Find More Posts by JamesBC
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 23, 2012, 05:32 AM
kin
Registered User
Joined Sep 2007
3,186 Posts
We have the big different quality /weight /C/G / Colour / in the coming new blades . The 120 g new weight , the lead safty install to the blades . now the c/g are big inproved . the colour is dark gray . Let see the coming flying preformance in the new weight and C\G .
kin is offline Find More Posts by kin
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24, 2012, 11:01 AM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2008
1,649 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kin View Post
We have the big different quality /weight /C/G / Colour / in the coming new blades . The 120 g new weight , the lead safty install to the blades . now the c/g are big inproved . the colour is dark gray . Let see the coming flying preformance in the new weight and C\G .
So are those who were sucked into purchasing your older versions be sent a free pair of these newer ones?
rotoraddict is offline Find More Posts by rotoraddict
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:39 AM
kin
Registered User
Joined Sep 2007
3,186 Posts
Yes! If customer feel too light for his models , we can sent them new version . it is no problem .
kin is offline Find More Posts by kin
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:44 AM
Registered User
Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Nov 2010
156 Posts
Like how you sent the blades to me?????

You know Kim, when you make a statement, you should do as you say, your word means something. And right now it seems your word means nothing to you.

Or maybe we have moved into a world where someone's word means nothing and I am just being old fashioned.
JamesBC is offline Find More Posts by JamesBC
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2012, 01:22 AM
Registered User
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2002
862 Posts
Our societal values are built on old fashioness ! Nothing wrong at all with that !
wilerbee is offline Find More Posts by wilerbee
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2012, 01:01 AM
Registered User
Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Nov 2010
156 Posts
Ok, after some time, Kin sent me two sets of the 360 scale blades. Now not going to say that I am happy with the service from Smartmodels since I complained about blades they sent me almost a year ago. So for customer service they rate very low.

Now about the blades:

I pulled one pack of 5 and weighted each on a very accurate scale, 41.60, 41.52, 41.47, 41.45 and 41.20.
That makes from heaviest to lightest in a 5 blade group only .40 grams. I have a set of Align blades here that I took off my everyday flier, they are 21.10 and 21.23, they where at one time balanced, but they still fly fine even off by .13grams.

Now I fly scale like, no hard 3d, these blades on a 3blade head where nice and solid. I think the extra weight and length made them feel very good.

Now if you look at the scale blades, they are .1153 grams per mm, while the Align blades are .0630 per mm.

Ok now I decided to try the blades by shorting them up. They are made of some kind of plastic material so I cut 15mm off two blades, rebalanced them and put them on my KDS heli which runs a SK-720 and a FBL head. Runing low figure 8's around the field they where so solid I ran lower to the ground and ran with Self Level off.

The only other thing to comment on is the thickness. My CopterX FBL head needs .185 at holder to fit with a nice slide in. My Tarat FBL head needs .183 to fit like I want. These blades have a thickness at blade holder of .198. For my way of thinking, that is perfect because I can carefully sand them down to fit either head.

These are my new perfect blades for the way I fly, love them. If you fly scale or like me don't do any wild 3D, they are perfect.
JamesBC is offline Find More Posts by JamesBC
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2012, 01:04 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2008
1,649 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesBC View Post
O.......The only other thing to comment on is the thickness. My CopterX FBL head needs .185 at holder to fit with a nice slide in. My Tarat FBL head needs .183 to fit like I want. These blades have a thickness at blade holder of .198. For my way of thinking, that is perfect because I can carefully sand them down to fit either head.

These are my new perfect blades for the way I fly, love them. If you fly scale or like me don't do any wild 3D, they are perfect.
What other blades, besides Align (in the blade arena, they are generally considered to be on the low end of the quality/performance spectrum), have you flown?
rotoraddict is offline Find More Posts by rotoraddict
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question 600mm scale rotor blades from SmartModel Horseman Scale Helicopters 11 Nov 01, 2011 12:46 PM
Discussion Smartmodel TFM-600-4 blades rotor head for 600 size wangzx Scale Helicopters 4 May 05, 2011 01:02 AM
New Product 600/700mm scale rotor blades from SmartModel Hoverup Scale Helicopters 67 Dec 03, 2010 07:49 AM
Discussion Smartmodel 450 scale rotor blades Piracy kin Scale Helicopters 4 Oct 19, 2010 08:47 PM
Discussion Smartmodel scale rotor blades for 450 size ! kin Scale Helicopters 172 Apr 13, 2010 02:17 PM