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Old Jan 08, 2013, 10:13 PM
ITS ME DAVID's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Apr 2011
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I have a hero rc h911 will this heli be the next step to take I'm looking at flying a bigger fp 4ch heli.
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 11:27 PM
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Joined Dec 2012
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Both my main and tail gears seem awfully tight on the f45, perhaps they get better after a wee break-in run... still seems like the gearsets should turn as easy as a v911 (it is currently on the carport roof ) Reminder to self: RUNNING LIGHTS
Yes I checked the rear when I ran the LED wire, a micro amount of play would be nice this is so tight it makes a clicky sound when you move the tail blade...
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:40 AM
Scotsman in Germany
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Germany, BY, Schwabach
Joined Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizgig View Post
Yes this is the part and the pins are the ones that hold on the blade holders, what do you mean when you said it flew out and nearly hit you do you mean the the pins or the whole unit as the plastic pins are molded with this part as a unit and the pins don't come off unless they are broken.
Hey Eugene

sitting in bed on the computer at the moment so don't have the heli in my hands but from memory, the pin (or rod) I'm talking about would be around 25 - 30mm long, maybe 2mm thick, made of steel and sits in a groove on the bottom part of the blade holders, passes through the main shaft and connects the blade holders to each other so they rotate. When I get out of my scratcher I'll have to have a look at the ones you're talking about as I seem to have overlooked them

Greetz
Fin
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:20 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Think you guys are talking about the feathering shaft?
approx 3.05cm x 2mm.

I've found this can occasionally vary in thickness (down to 1.8mm) - gives very 'floaty' handling. PITA to find the cause, too.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:10 AM
Eternal beginner
Rollmops67's Avatar
France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
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Originally Posted by hawaiichopper View Post
TBTW, woobles can be checked by keeping the chopper stationary (bolted down), then from above placing a stiff wire with a 90 degree angle (an L shape) in it straight down near the rotor head. The tip of the wire is placed just above the center of the shaft with a tiny bit of white paint on it. Any woobles can be seen very easily.
Hello !
i'm not sure if it's a good idea with the wire above the rotor head.
i have two F45s, and both have some wobble when seeing from the top of the rotorhead, albeit my shafts are straight and no bent.
I think there is some imprecision in the molding of the rotorhead.
To see if the shaft is bent, the best would be to remove the whole rotorhead and blades (one screw and two links) and to place the tip of the wire above the shaft.

Regards, Roland
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 05:12 AM
Scotsman in Germany
tiggertoo1962's Avatar
Germany, BY, Schwabach
Joined Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Think you guys are talking about the feathering shaft?
approx 3.05cm x 2mm.

I've found this can occasionally vary in thickness (down to 1.8mm) - gives very 'floaty' handling. PITA to find the cause, too.
That's the one John

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollmops67 View Post
Hello !
i'm not sure if it's a good idea with the wire above the rotor head.
i have two F45s, and both have some wobble when seeing from the top of the rotorhead, albeit my shafts are straight and no bent.
I think there is some imprecision in the molding of the rotorhead.
To see if the shaft is bent, the best would be to remove the whole rotorhead and blades (one screw and two links) and to place the tip of the wire above the shaft.

Regards, Roland
Well I've just stripped down to the shaft to check the top & bottom bearings. Just about wore my thumb down to the bone trying to get the main gear off... think it's time to invest in a quality set of jeweller's screwdrivers instead of the cheapo set I've had for about 20 years now

Bearings are fine. I think what I was seeing as minimal play was really just the top half of the chassis moving with the whole shebang, from the rotor head right down to the main gear. Put it back together and did a quick bird's eye view test - without the cap on - as I don't have the time to set up the suggested wire & paint scenario at the moment. If there is any wobble without the cap on, I'm certainly having a hard time seeing it.

What I DID do was use the flybar to manually turn the head. When starting up, the gears grind a bit, but that goes away when I have some momentum going. Is this normal, and maybe just caused by the weight of the blades not being evenly distributed until the head is spinning, or should I be worrying about the grinding?

I had wondered if the motor had maybe moved a fraction in the direction of the main gear, but when I try to move it by hand the thing seems rock solid.

Greetz
Fin
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 06:47 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Tiggertoo-
The 'rock solid' part worries me a bit. There should be a little play in the pinion/main gear, as these are pretty cheap mouldings, and can be a little eccentric. HK gears also are famous(?) for it!
The standard technique I've been using is to tighten the motor bolts with a sheet of paper between the meshing gears: this gives a little clearance. I had to extend the mounting holes on one of my F45s for this reason.
Have to do it anyway when you use a non standard pinion for BL conversion.
That 'grinding noise' just shouldn't be there, imo.
Cheers
John.

PS - Usually spin the whole head assembly up on an electric drill - gives a good idea as to the overall balance. Also don't trust the blades! - can be nearly 1g different. I balance them, too. Of course, I'm taking pretty extreme precautions with the 45/450s 50% extra blade loading - but the principle's valid I feel.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 07:37 AM
Scotsman in Germany
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Germany, BY, Schwabach
Joined Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Tiggertoo-
The 'rock solid' part worries me a bit. There should be a little play in the pinion/main gear, as these are pretty cheap mouldings, and can be a little eccentric. HK gears also are famous(?) for it!
The standard technique I've been using is to tighten the motor bolts with a sheet of paper between the meshing gears: this gives a little clearance. I had to extend the mounting holes on one of my F45s for this reason.
Have to do it anyway when you use a non standard pinion for BL conversion.
That 'grinding noise' just shouldn't be there, imo.
Cheers
John.

PS - Usually spin the whole head assembly up on an electric drill - gives a good idea as to the overall balance. Also don't trust the blades! - can be nearly 1g different. I balance them, too.
Thanks for the tips John. I'll have to get myself a set of letter scales as my wife's kitchen scales only measure to the nearest gram. What do you use to balance the blades? Do you tape them or what?

Well anyway, decided to take the bird out for another trial run this morning. Was flying well until I lost concentration when it was about maybe 30m up (serves me right for taking The Wife with me and not paying full attention to what I was doing). All of a sudden the heli went into a dive -not sure at all how it happened - and I bottled it. Can't remember for sure how I reacted, but I think I killed the throttle thinking "well I'm gonna crash anyway, let's see about damage limitation" The poor bird hit the ground nose first at an angle of about 60 from the horizontal .

Got away with it pretty lightly though. Apart from a broken main blade, yet another bent tail strut and a few more cracks in the canopy (now mended with heavy-duty sellotape - or "Durex" to you guys from Down Under... makes me smile every time that does) there doesn't seem to have been any damage.

What I'd like to ask you experienced flyers is, once I was in the dive, if I had reacted differently could I have pulled out of it? Sitting here reflecting, my common sense tells me that instead of giving up too early and cutting the throttle, I should have given MORE throttle and pulled back on the elevator stick to try and get the nose back up. Would that have possibly worked, or would it simply have resulted in more damage?

One more thing. I need to get in behind the pcb to tape the main motor cables, as I reckon they got a bit crushed against the chassis when I "landed" for want of a better description . Does the pcb just pop off of the 2 pegs on the battery holder? Looks like it,but I just thought I'd ask before I end up wrecking the thing through BFI

Note to self: use a strip of velcro to hold the battery in place so it doesn't shoot through the nose of the canopy next time...

Thanks again
Fin

PS for John
when I said "rock solid" I meant that the main motor sits rock solid in the mount, not that the gears were solidly meshed together and couldn't be turned by hand, just in case that's what you were thinking
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:17 AM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Hi Fin if you look closely you will see two small screws in the pcb directly above the two pegs.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:21 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Tiggertoo -
Yep, that's what I WAS thinking about the gear mesh
The dive!
That is the gamble. The fun is pulling out of a steep dive and zooming along a meter above the ground - not so much when you miscalculate, of course. But generally, quite often 'more power' is the answer, counterintuitive as it seems. Even more so with CP, I find (substitute pitch for power in IU, of course).
However, when the 'more power' doesn't work, you pay an increased price - so you'll never know lol. The answer comes with experience - 1000+ flights, and I still goof at times.
Fortunately, the F45 is about as indestructable as a heli can be: slammed one full tilt into a tin shed on one occasion, straightened the flybar, and flew on. Even the F45/450 has inherited a lot of its robust nature I've found (the obvious way). CP, same smash: $30 at least, and 1-3 hrs repairing and resetting swash and pitch.
Your other questions:
- Yes, just the 2 screws
- Align battery strap (or girls hairband - 'scrunchie' here) can save damage
- Lining inside the canopy fragile areas with duct tape can help. Full list of basic mods p.194, too.
All the best
John.

PS - balance the blades on my Align balancer, but could be done with a 6mm bolt and two glasses, I guess. Balance by matching, or tape on the blades.
And - on a rethink - power is your only weapon in a gust or updraft situation with FP, so more critical here than CP. If the wind is stronger than your heli speed, you've potentially lost it (though I've clocked mine fully modded at 40+ kph)
a final edit - 'Durex' in NZ only. In Oz, AFIK same connotations as UK (and US, I guess) .
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:44 AM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
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Yep that's right OldOz throttle up and pull back that way it acts as a brake forcing air in front of the heli the same as a reverse throttle on a jet aircraft.

Also Fin we call it sticky tape or sellotape or packing tape if it's thick not Durex, LoL
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:48 AM
Eternal beginner
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France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggertoo1962 View Post
What I'd like to ask you experienced flyers is, once I was in the dive, if I had reacted differently could I have pulled out of it? Sitting here reflecting, my common sense tells me that instead of giving up too early and cutting the throttle, I should have given MORE throttle and pulled back on the elevator stick to try and get the nose back up. Would that have possibly worked, or would it simply have resulted in more damage?
Hello Nachbar !
Here we are in typical situation of "newbie flyer" (I also was one and still be one with CP helis).
Once you become experimented with your heli, knowing how it reacts, the manner to fly it fast and (MUCH MORE important !) the manner to slow it down, you will no longer need to think "Oh, what do I have to do now ?" when s..t happens, but your reactions will become reflexes.
Often, with the time lost in thinking, it's too late !!!
I remenber about 4 months ago I had some severe crashes because the heli had take me by surprise and I didn't get the time to react.
Nowadays, I can fly the F45 much more relaxed while at the same time doing much more crazy things with it.
And when I am in a scarry situation, I often give it more throttle to escape.
Things are not magic and there's only one recipe to become a good (better) flyer : practice, practice, practice.

On a side note, I have a Master CP (wich is "easy to fly" for a CP heli) since a few weeks, and when I fly it, I have the feeling I have to learn from scratch (the manner it behaves is VERY different from a FP heli and it forgive errors very less than the F45). It's VERY VERY frustrating, but I have to accept that I have still lots to learn and that it will take some time.
The main goal I have for now is to bring the heli back to earth on it's skids and in one piece each time I fly it, it's my actual reward !

Regards, Roland
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:58 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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I hear you too on CP, Rollmops!
And Tiggertoo - even Gordonzo crashed his F45 first time in a power dive in an open area flight, IIRC!
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 10:35 AM
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Friends, I want to buy a heli MJX. Which is better: f45 or F46?
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:34 AM
Scotsman in Germany
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Germany, BY, Schwabach
Joined Oct 2012
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Gentlemen! Thank you once again for all your help

Found the tiny screws on the pcb, removed it and still couldn't get my fat fingers in to tape the cables, so decided to see what else I could pull off while I was at it ... all good for the learning curve . No need to bore you with detail since you all know how to do it, but I eventualy got the battery tray out and got the cables insulated. Put it all back together and wished I had an idiot guide for getting the pcb screws aligned... must have been 20 minutes on that part alone .

Decided I had time for a quick test before going shopping, and probably wouldn't have regretted it if I had stuck to hovering. Unfortunately, seeing that the bird was hovering well I decided to push my boundaries again, with near catastrophic results. If that river was one single meter wider?.... Was lucky to apparently get away with a busted tail rotor this time, I can tell you. If you look real close about 2:30 or so you might be able to see just how lucky I was.

down by the river (2 min 43 sec)


After replacing the tail rotor and getting the shopping in there was just enough light left to do a damage check - nothing REMOTELY addictive about this hobby, that's for sure . For a change I actually managed over 1 1/2 batteries without crashing. Might have something to do with the fact I've belatedly realised that if you get in trouble, it's safer to get ABOVE the trees.

As said previously, not having much experience on the F45 I can't say for definite, but it certainly SEEMED to fly well. Nearly got away from me once when I decided that height was preferable to another uncontrolled landing (read crash). Wasn't sure if the heli wasn't getting just a tad too far away, but I managed to bring it back down safely. Serious adrenaline rush though when I found myself thinking "goodness (or words to that effect), isn't that high?"

Well it's dark here now and I'm back on early shift tomorrow, so there'll be no more flying til sometime after 2pm tomorrow - weather permitting. 21 hours can seem SUCH a long time...

Regards
Fin
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