Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 05:00 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
noname2x -
I've posted some pics in the last 24h that show what (imo) your head assembly/swash should look like. It's certainly different from yours, but it does work well.
Again - imo - I just don't see how your heli can fly with the swash that high. There should be visible mainshaft between the swash and the head.
I'll try to see how to duplicate your setup tomorrow - unless you prove me wrong (please!) and get it flying first. Your latest stills give me a bit more to work with now
Or a better mind than mine can see what is wrong with that configuration.

PS - could you check the length of the lower dogbones? - they should be roughly 3.3 cm long.
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Last edited by OldOz; Oct 21, 2012 at 05:06 AM.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 05:26 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noname2x View Post
Hi there , as i pointed before , the swashplate level is high when the blade rotate. So i decide to extend the servo link to make the swashplate parallel . But now the swashplate level is higher than before ( before i take everything out ) . Will it be considered at a problem or still good ? Another problem that ,sometime the flybar and blade buckle is disconnected when rotating !!!

and some stills image
Notice on several of these photos that the blade holder is not 90 degrees to the main shaft. It has to be and cannot change if the metal pivot rod is installed in the blade holder through the main shaft. If you hold the blades straight out, can you lightly wobble the blades up and down causing the blade holder to move on the main shaft? If so, the pivot pin is missing.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 05:36 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Well picked, BThirsk!
I thought a better mind than mine would find a (if not the) problem!
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 05:49 AM
Hangin' for a strong SW
slothy89's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Sebastopol
Joined Apr 2012
737 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noname2x View Post
Hi there , as i pointed before , the swashplate level is high when the blade rotate. So i decide to extend the servo link to make the swashplate parallel . But now the swashplate level is higher than before ( before i take everything out ) . Will it be considered at a problem or still good ? Another problem that ,sometime the flybar and blade buckle is disconnected when rotating !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lQROfGLhHY

and some stills image
As BThirsk mentioned, your Blade Holder is off kilter, and a good chance the Feathering Shaft is either broken or completely missing. If you say you pulled the head apart, good chance you forgot to put it back in.

As you can see in the picture I edited of yours, the pink line shows where the Blade holder should ALWAYS line up with and NEVER be able to shift from that angle.

If the feathering shaft is completely missing, what happens when you add throttle, is the lift from the blades lifts the whole assembly, causing the swash to lift with it. Find the feathering shaft (or make a new one from Alu or steel rod) and you should be back in business
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 06:00 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Noname -
To make it a bit clearer, here's a pic of a (not F45) blade holder.
Yours should have a similar steel pin through the centerline to keep the blade assembly at 90 deg to the shaft, as BThirsk picked out - and I missed! - from your stills.

Reinstall/replace/repair, and you should be gtg . As Slothy says, or a paperclip might work if you've lost the original.

BThirsk - did you HAVE to keep us all guessing that long? (!)
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 07:22 AM
Registered User
The Netherlands, ZH, Rotterdam
Joined Aug 2012
66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noname2x View Post
Hi there , as i pointed before , the swashplate level is high when the blade rotate. So i decide to extend the servo link to make the swashplate parallel . But now the swashplate level is higher than before ( before i take everything out ) . Will it be considered at a problem or still good ? Another problem that ,sometime the flybar and blade buckle is disconnected when rotating !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lQROfGLhHY

and some stills image
I still can't see anything wrong with the connections.
But one thing I noticed is that the rotor head is not level, you might want to check if the pin in the main shaft is ok, this angle suggest that there is someting wrong there.
I made an image roughly in the same position of my own working F45, notice the red lines.

Regards

Edit: Took a while to examine your images and prepare an image of my own, but after posting I see that others came to the same conclusion :-)
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Last edited by Flyor; Oct 21, 2012 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Already noticed by others
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 07:56 AM
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Joined Jul 2012
50 Posts
WOWLAAAAAAAAAA the pin is missing . You guys are TOPPP !! LOL , i will try to find the pin if i leave it somewhere else . Thanks all , love u guys so much . But i did remember that after take out , i didnt see any pin there . Anyway , problem solved
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 08:16 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyor View Post
I still can't see anything wrong with the connections.
But one thing I noticed is that the rotor head is not level, you might want to check if the pin in the main shaft is ok, this angle suggest that there is someting wrong there.
I made an image roughly in the same position of my own working F45, notice the red lines.

Regards

Edit: Took a while to examine your images and prepare an image of my own, but after posting I see that others came to the same conclusion :-)
One very interesting observation I have made from all the pictures posted regarding this issue is how close the bottom of the ball links are to the hoops on the main shaft on many of your helis.
On my original with the 7 shaped links, with everything straight at bind up position, I had at least 3/8 inch or about 10mm from the eye to the hoop. The eye on mine would never touch the hoop even on full cyclic. Most of yours are close to touching with the swash plate level. when I converted my flybar to paddles, I used all new parts in the head with the straight links. My clearance was reduced when I did this. With full cyclic, the eye would contact the hoop and actually push on it causing it to bend slightly. Because I now do not require near as much travel in the swash and have the servo travel set to 80 % , I am not having this contact issue.
I wonder if that is the reason why some have had so much issue with the hoops breaking and others of us have never broken a hoop. Or are these hoop breaks cause by crashing?
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 01:23 PM
Still learning to fly
Germany, SH, Lubeck
Joined Aug 2012
56 Posts
I think you are exactly right, i was out to fly yesterday and my new rotorhead has got a broken loop after 3 flights without any crash , so i changed back to my selfmadeloops.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 01:47 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2012
71 Posts
to anyone that's has put a heatsink on their heli. how effective was it in terms of flying time and cooling
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 02:51 PM
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War Horse's Avatar
United States, FL, Hernando
Joined Sep 2012
1,460 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by totse View Post
to anyone that's has put a heatsink on their heli. how effective was it in terms of flying time and cooling
I have them on mine, but also went for a 25C, 2200 lipo battery which brought the main motor down to very cool after 6-8 minutes of flight. I have about 25-30 flights on it , and so far all is good.

BTW, I did file out for the motor vent holes and have double hood scoops on the canopy.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 02:53 PM
Eternal beginner
Rollmops67's Avatar
France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
624 Posts
Very interesting failure

Today, I had a weird issue, I want to share it with you in case it happens on your helicopter.
While I was flying my EH200-modified F45 over a freshly harvested corn field, the rotor suddenly simply stopped to rotate and the heli fell from about 15 meters (45 feet) like a stone.
Not a very pleasant vision, believe me...
After the crash the heli seemed still to be bound with the transmitter, the white led was on.
Damaged parts :
- bent flybar, but okay it's not the first (neither the last) time, I bent it straight.
- slightly bent tail boom, I straightened it with no problems.
- a crack in the canopy beneath the skids (the F45 felt on the nose)
- biggest damage : a broken gyro on the RX board.

I tried to understand what happened.
The transmitter worked fine, batteries were charged.
I tried to bind to the helicopter to the TX, all was OK, the white led became steady as allways, even whith the broken gyro.
But each time I spooled up the heli, after a few seconds the main rotor stopped and the white led began to blink slowly.
The tail motor didn't run, I tought this was because the gyro was broken.
And each time I put the throttle to 0 on the Tx the white led became steady again, and I could spool up the rotor, which stopped again with blinking led, and so on...
First I thought the ESC had a problem (short-circuit ?).
Then while playing with the RX board, I noticed that each time I tried to spool up, a surface mounted electronic component next to the tail motor connector became hot.
Aha.
I disconnected the tail motor to see what happens, and now the helicopter spooled up whithout problem and the main rotor worked normally.
So the culprit was the tail motor wich had a short.
I think the RX board has a protection circuit wich detects an overcurrent in the motor and the "switches off" with the white led blinking.
The motor had just about 30 flights
I replaced the RX board, the tail motor, and now it flies again.

Roland
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 02:56 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
89 Posts
A little help regarding how to replace the flybar...

What should i do to replace it ?
There is a pin but how do i remove it ?

Edit: Yes... i crashed again.. not proud of it... but i solved my earlier problem by increasing the throttle to 70 % in stead of 40 %... There was simply not enough power...
When ever i want it to move against the wind, i'll keep giving a little throttle and let of again.. like when you spin the engine in your car.. this way it will not go higher and you will give the bird momentum...

My 2 cents: This bird is all about momentum..when you give it a cyclic command and it does not move.. then give a little throttle and let of.. just for half a second.. and keep doing so until you build momentum... and the bird shall go where you want it to move without gaining altitude..
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Last edited by mumilove; Oct 21, 2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollmops67 View Post
Today, I had a weird issue, I want to share it with you in case it happens on your helicopter.
While I was flying my EH200-modified F45 over a freshly harvested corn field, the rotor suddenly simply stopped to rotate and the heli fell from about 15 meters (45 feet) like a stone.
Not a very pleasant vision, believe me...
After the crash the heli seemed still to be bound with the transmitter, the white led was on.
Damaged parts :
- bent flybar, but okay it's not the first (neither the last) time, I bent it straight.
- slightly bent tail boom, I straightened it with no problems.
- a crack in the canopy beneath the skids (the F45 felt on the nose)
- biggest damage : a broken gyro on the RX board.

I tried to understand what happened.
The transmitter worked fine, batteries were charged.
I tried to bind to the helicopter to the TX, all was OK, the white led became steady as allways, even whith the broken gyro.
But each time I spooled up the heli, after a few seconds the main rotor stopped and the white led began to blink slowly.
The tail motor didn't run, I tought this was because the gyro was broken.
And each time I put the throttle to 0 on the Tx the white led became steady again, and I could spool up the rotor, which stopped again with blinking led, and so on...
First I thought the ESC had a problem (short-circuit ?).
Then while playing with the RX board, I noticed that each time I tried to spool up, a surface mounted electronic component next to the tail motor connector became hot.
Aha.
I disconnected the tail motor to see what happens, and now the helicopter spooled up whithout problem and the main rotor worked normally.
So the culprit was the tail motor wich had a short.
I think the RX board has a protection circuit wich detects an overcurrent in the motor and the "switches off" with the white led blinking.
The motor had just about 30 flights
I replaced the RX board, the tail motor, and now it flies again.

Roland
That little flat thing is the MOPSFET which shuts down if the current draw is too high.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 04:01 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove View Post
A little help regarding how to replace the flybar...

What should i do to replace it ?
There is a pin but how do i remove it ?

Edit: Yes... i crashed again.. not proud of it... but i solved my earlier problem by increasing the throttle to 70 % in stead of 40 %... There was simply not enough power...
When ever i want it to move against the wind, i'll keep giving a little throttle and let of again.. like when you spin the engine in your car.. this way it will not go higher and you will give the bird momentum...

My 2 cents: This bird is all about momentum..when you give it a cyclic command and it does not move.. then give a little throttle and let of.. just for half a second.. and keep doing so until you build momentum... and the bird shall go where you want it to move without gaining altitude..
You need to find something smaller than the pin, put the head over a vise or something like that, and lightly tap out the pin and the flybar is loose.
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