Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 11, 2012, 04:03 PM
Eternal beginner
Rollmops67's Avatar
France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
625 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexless View Post
I think this is good advice. I shall look for a 9 tooth pinion, thanks Brent!
Since I did the brushless mod, I fly as before with 2S batteries (7,4 V), and I don't see why I had to move to a 3S battery.
The EH200 motor has plenty of power on the F45 with 2S batteries, and I never need to fly with 100% throttle.
No wonder that with a 3S battery the blades begin to flutter, the rotor speed becomes crazy, and this heli was not designed for that !
And if it becomes necessary to put a 9 teeth pinion on the motor to "tame" the rotor speed, I don't see where is the benefit of flying with a 3S battery !

Just my 2 cents.

Have nice flights, wheter you fly with 2S or 3S batteries

Roland
Rollmops67 is offline Find More Posts by Rollmops67
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:05 PM
Registered User
The Netherlands, ZH, Rotterdam
Joined Aug 2012
66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollmops67 View Post
Since I did the brushless mod, I fly as before with 2S batteries (7,4 V), and I don't see why I had to move to a 3S battery.
The EH200 motor has plenty of power on the F45 with 2S batteries, and I never need to fly with 100% throttle.
No wonder that with a 3S battery the blades begin to flutter, the rotor speed becomes crazy, and this heli was not designed for that !
And if it becomes necessary to put a 9 teeth pinion on the motor to "tame" the rotor speed, I don't see where is the benefit of flying with a 3S battery !

Just my 2 cents.

Have nice flights, wheter you fly with 2S or 3S batteries

Roland
My 2 cents also, if you don't mind I'm flying with the original 7.4 volt batt. stock blades and an EH200 with a 9t pinion, I can fly in quite some wind with this setup, works like a charm, there is a lot of power left to get out some tricky situations, the tail can handle the extra power most of the time, only with a very fast full throttle the tail can't keep up for a short moment.

I have a 11t pinion also but I dont think I'm going to use that.

Regards
Flyor is offline Find More Posts by Flyor
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:06 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
Exactly what happen to the pinion. I have helis with 150 flight and not real sign of excessive wear. If something is creating wear in one or 2 flights, it might be the gear is not mod .5. That will destroy a gear in no time at all.
Got my gear puller today and swapped gears on the Park 370. What a difference, it's wisper quiet. All you hear is the tail motor. It's raining today so no flying.
arrowshooter is offline Find More Posts by arrowshooter
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 06:23 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,747 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollmops67 View Post
Since I did the brushless mod, I fly as before with 2S batteries (7,4 V), and I don't see why I had to move to a 3S battery.
The EH200 motor has plenty of power on the F45 with 2S batteries, and I never need to fly with 100% throttle.
No wonder that with a 3S battery the blades begin to flutter, the rotor speed becomes crazy, and this heli was not designed for that !
And if it becomes necessary to put a 9 teeth pinion on the motor to "tame" the rotor speed, I don't see where is the benefit of flying with a 3S battery !

Just my 2 cents.

Have nice flights, wheter you fly with 2S or 3S batteries

Roland
If your happy with it the way it is, then there is no need to change. I was not.
I did not like the power degradation after 5 minutes, and after trying 3 speed controllers and ruling them out, I went to a 3S battery which cured my issue.
The 9 tooth pinion will slow my speed down just a little to give my more usable throttle stick on the lower end of the range. Just a preference.
The blade flutter is caused by using too soft of blade.
If you look at the head speed calculations on my blog, you will see I am running just about 900 RPM more at 3s than at 2s.
Again, it is a preference. I prefer high head speed. On my CP helis, as I increased the center stick head speed, I found all the helis to be more responsive and easier for me to handle. I have a flying buddy who has also done the same.
We each have to play with things like that to best suit our flying style. It is the same with the flybar mod I did. It is not for everyone because the heli is extremely responsive and not tame to handle.
BThirsk is offline Find More Posts by BThirsk
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 06:29 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,747 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Got my gear puller today and swapped gears on the Park 370. What a difference, it's wisper quiet. All you hear is the tail motor. It's raining today so no flying.
That's the nice thing about brushless, they are quiter and smoother and yours will probably be quieter than the outrunner. Can't wait to see how it performs for you.
BThirsk is offline Find More Posts by BThirsk
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 06:45 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
rexless's Avatar
Canada, BC
Joined Apr 2012
1,433 Posts
I admit, I find the 2000mah 2s to give me a solid 10 minutes of flight time with good performance. What I'm hoping to gain with the higher head speed and lower pitch-stiffer blades is the ability to maintain better control at the lower end of the throttle. IE, in the 10-30% range when I'm trying to descend and a headwind kicks in I'd like to have a better chance at getting the nose down without having to gain a lot of altitude by punching the throttle.

Also, it just seems like a fun idea. I've never flown it that way so it's something to learn from.
rexless is offline Find More Posts by rexless
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 11, 2012, 07:03 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,348 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
If your happy with it the way it is, then there is no need to change. I was not.
I did not like the power degradation after 5 minutes, and after trying 3 speed controllers and ruling them out, I went to a 3S battery which cured my issue.
The 9 tooth pinion will slow my speed down just a little to give my more usable throttle stick on the lower end of the range. Just a preference.
The blade flutter is caused by using too soft of blade.
If you look at the head speed calculations on my blog, you will see I am running just about 900 RPM more at 3s than at 2s.
Again, it is a preference. I prefer high head speed. On my CP helis, as I increased the center stick head speed, I found all the helis to be more responsive and easier for me to handle. I have a flying buddy who has also done the same.
We each have to play with things like that to best suit our flying style. It is the same with the flybar mod I did. It is not for everyone because the heli is extremely responsive and not tame to handle.
Higher voltage is becoming more common, now. It ensures smoother, more steady current for the life of the battery. We are seeing 450s running 6S.
Balr14 is offline Find More Posts by Balr14
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 07:51 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
89 Posts
Crashed again

So i crashed again... my fault (as if it can be the helis fault)...
It's the damn trees.. it flew away and over some trees... i ran to the other side and could not see the heli any more... search-and-rescue for 10 min utilizing the throttle to force the heli to make a sound.. found it in a tree (trees was the reason i lost it of my sight, but it is the trees which saved it from a total crash)..

Luckily nothing serious happened.. only the landing skid broke off.. i made a quick fix by using some of the foam and the wires from the original box the F45 came in.

Must now wait 3 weeks for replacement parts from banggood.... but i'll fly it anyway.. with or without landing skid.

One thing i notice.. today there was no wind.. like REALY no wind.. but still the helicopter acts very funny when in high altitudes..
I can give it 100% cyclic and still nothing.. only when i push the throttle i get some response.. but then it moves further up... and as you can se.. after a couple of times i crash.. HARD :0)

Any idea what is going on?
Tips ?
mumilove is offline Find More Posts by mumilove
Last edited by mumilove; Oct 11, 2012 at 08:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 08:20 PM
Registered User
The Netherlands, UT, Nieuwegein
Joined Sep 2012
78 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove View Post
So i crashed again... my fault (as if it can be the helis fault)...
It's the damn trees.. it flew away and over some trees... i ran to the other side and could not see the heli any more... search-and-rescue for 10 min utilizing the throttle to force the heli to make a sound.. found it in a tree (trees was the reason i lost it of my sight, but it is the trees which saved it from a total crash)..

Luckily nothing serious happened.. only the landing skid broke off.. i made a quick fix by using some of the foam and the wires from the original box the F45 came in.

Must now wait 3 weeks for replacement parts from banggood.... but i'll fly it anyway.. with or without landing skid.

One thing i notice.. today there was no wind.. like REALY no wind.. but still the helicopter acts very funny when in high altitudes..
I can give it 100% cyclic and still nothing.. only when i push the throttle i get some response.. but then i moves further up... and as you can se.. after a couple of times i crash.. HARD :0)

Any idea what is going on?
Tips ?
From where you are standing there is maybe les or not wind at all but how higher you go as much more wind there will be, this could be a cause or maybe you go to high and lose the signal to the heli.

When you want to come down from high altitude give both cyclic forward and throttle that should help you come down.

Good luck to you
eminemin is offline Find More Posts by eminemin
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2012, 01:47 AM
Eternal beginner
Rollmops67's Avatar
France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
625 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove View Post
I can give it 100% cyclic and still nothing.. only when i push the throttle i get some response.. but then it moves further up...
Any idea what is going on?
Tips ?
This is how the F45 and other helis too, (mostly with fixed pitch) behave.
If you have just enough throttle to be at a hovering altitude, there is not very much response to the cyclic.
If you give more throttle, the response to the cyclic becomes better, but the heli tends to climb.
I had the same concerns at the beginning but after hours of flying I am now able to manage throttle AND cyclic togheter.

More throttle + too much cyclic >> the heli doesn't climb but tends to become VERY fast and come down nose first.
More throttle + not enough cyclic >> the heli doesn't go very fast but climbs.

The trick is to find the right balance between both, it just takes time, you have to practice and practice.
But once you got it, you are able to gain respectable speeds without falling nose first or climbing, and it becomes VERY VERY VERY fun to see and hear the heli fly by !!!

Roland
Rollmops67 is offline Find More Posts by Rollmops67
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:31 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2012
16 Posts
Hi pilots! Yesterday i flew two batteries, nice flying. Then i had crash but not looks so bad. But when i picked up heli i heard that one servo is still trying push (without stick movement). So i disconnected battery and checked if everything looks ok. It looked well so i connected battery again to check the electronics. But from that moment i can't bind heli to TX
My esc is still beeping after battery is connected. It looks like the main board is dead. Someone saw similar problem?
I still hope that there is only bad voltage regulator or something similar that i can fix, but find what is wrong will be tricky.
Pulec is offline Find More Posts by Pulec
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:41 AM
Registered User
The Netherlands, ZH, Rotterdam
Joined Aug 2012
66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulec View Post
Hi pilots! Yesterday i flew two batteries, nice flying. Then i had crash but not looks so bad. But when i picked up heli i heard that one servo is still trying push (without stick movement). So i disconnected battery and checked if everything looks ok. It looked well so i connected battery again to check the electronics. But from that moment i can't bind heli to TX
My esc is still beeping after battery is connected. It looks like the main board is dead. Someone saw similar problem?
I still hope that there is only bad voltage regulator or something similar that i can fix, but find what is wrong will be tricky.
There could be something else wrong but check the mode switches on the TX, if they are even a little off position the heli will not bind.

BTW I fixed the mode switches with small pieces of rubber in the slots.

Regards
Flyor is offline Find More Posts by Flyor
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:56 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,747 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Do we know what the rpm is for the stock brushed tail motor is?
I tried to get a reading on the tail motor, but it is not steady enough and a little small for my optical tach. I am guessing some where around 3000 plus rpm.
All I can tell is where blade image changes direction, but when trying to adjust tach, I can never get to still image.
I'm just going to experiment to set what works for me.
BThirsk is offline Find More Posts by BThirsk
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:59 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
89 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollmops67 View Post
This is how the F45 and other helis too, (mostly with fixed pitch) behave.
If you have just enough throttle to be at a hovering altitude, there is not very much response to the cyclic.
If you give more throttle, the response to the cyclic becomes better, but the heli tends to climb.
I had the same concerns at the beginning but after hours of flying I am now able to manage throttle AND cyclic togheter.

More throttle + too much cyclic >> the heli doesn't climb but tends to become VERY fast and come down nose first.
More throttle + not enough cyclic >> the heli doesn't go very fast but climbs.

The trick is to find the right balance between both, it just takes time, you have to practice and practice.
But once you got it, you are able to gain respectable speeds without falling nose first or climbing, and it becomes VERY VERY VERY fun to see and hear the heli fly by !!!

Roland
You are spot on my friend... nice tips..
I did a test run before going to work.. much more fun this way :0)

I still have problems with momentum.. this bird is heavy and needs lots of room to slow down or change direction... not like the v911
mumilove is offline Find More Posts by mumilove
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2012, 05:03 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,747 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
Higher voltage is becoming more common, now. It ensures smoother, more steady current for the life of the battery. We are seeing 450s running 6S.
Exactly my point. My buddy is just finishing a new 450 flybarless running 6s. He has 2 running 3s and wants to see the difference. I'm sure it will have more consistent voltage and longer flight times and less battery and motor heat.
More voltage equates to less amperage and less heat.
BThirsk is offline Find More Posts by BThirsk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion On self stabilising single-rotor helis (FP/CP) and comparison to quadcopters and coax LMF5000 Electric Heli Talk 10 Apr 13, 2014 02:59 PM
Discussion UAV systems Single Rotor vs Multi Rotor iskoos UAV - Unmanned Aerial Vehicles 2 Jan 06, 2012 10:51 PM
Question Upgrading from Co-Axial to FP Single Rotor Judo JoNny Electric Heli Talk 57 Sep 20, 2010 12:10 PM
Discussion Best FP single rotor 4 CH Heli? helinewbie617 Micro Helis 76 Oct 31, 2009 07:16 PM
For Sale will trade my orbiter coaxial for a fp or cp single rotor heli micro heli Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 3 Sep 05, 2007 01:36 PM