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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:45 PM
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United States, CA, Modesto
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The Next Level

I have been reading here with quite a bit of interest, about the next level of helicopters being CP. I have been taking it all in, along with watching vids on YouTube, and I wonder what is actually happening to get these things off the ground? I see them being spooled up at a fairly high rpm then they "blast off". Is there a button being pushed on the Tx that cranks on the pitch and is this something that needs to be adjusted with another finger on the TX during flight? I am very happy with my quick progression with the F45, and I see a CP (not 3-D) in my future, but I would love to see a 2 screen vid of of someone flying one and what their hands are doing. Any one seen one?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
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United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
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Final LiPo Question

Since we know that flying for under 10 mins is best to help with the life of the motors, I assume that the big advantage to "real" LiPo batteries is the fact that their discharge is more linear. Is the power difference really that noticeable in the air? Also, presuming that there is an adequate charge left after one stops to cool down, is it worth the effort to take off and fly the rest of the battery down? If you do not fly the rest out do you have to discharge them down or is this part of the "no memory effect"?

I seem to be happy with the stock faux LiPo's averaging 9.5 mins flight times, so I am wondering if this is all worth the upgrade.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
Eternal beginner
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France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
I have been reading here with quite a bit of interest, about the next level of helicopters being CP. I have been taking it all in, along with watching vids on YouTube, and I wonder what is actually happening to get these things off the ground? I see them being spooled up at a fairly high rpm then they "blast off". Is there a button being pushed on the Tx that cranks on the pitch and is this something that needs to be adjusted with another finger on the TX during flight? I am very happy with my quick progression with the F45, and I see a CP (not 3-D) in my futureI
I think you know that on CP helis the pitch is changing with throttle (in wich manner is set on the transmitter with the throttle curve and the pitch curve)
And to make things more difficult, they are two possibilities to fly CP helis. (different curves)

1 "Normal" flying (not 3D, more realistic) :
In this case, throttle acts a little (but not exactly) like on the F45 : stick down, rotor stopped, and when you push the stick upwards, the rotor begins to turn, often the transmitter is set in a manner that the RPM are the same between 50% and 100% throttle stick position.
What changes too, is the pitch, a little negative (about -3°) at 0 Throttle (to allow autorotation, but that's another story), about +3° at 50% throttle, and 8 to 12° at full throttle.
So more lift is accomplished not by rising the rotor speed, but rising the blade pitch.

2 "3D flying" : here it gets more complicated.
In this case, the "neutral" position of the trhottle stick is at 50%.
On the transmitter you have a switch to spool up the rotor at the max RPM, often called "iddle up". Notice that the max RPM is not obligatory the max possible RPM, but the RPM set in the transmitter)
In this 3D mode the rotor RPM remain usually constant, whatever the throttle stick position is (at least in theory)
When the throttle stick is at 50%, the pitch is 0°, so there is no lift on the rotor.
When you move the throttle stick from 50% to 100%, the pitch increases from 0° to about 10-13°, giving more or less lift.
When you see on the videos a CP heli jumping in the air, the pilot moves the throttle stick quickly from 50% up.
And there is no inertia or lag like on a FP heli, because the rotor is allready at his max RPM.
When you move the throttle from 50% to 0°, the pitch becomes negative, and at 0% can be -10 to -13°.
This make inverted flying possible, and to do crazy 3D things (wich I am not yet capable of, I'm a beginner)

What is important to know is :
1) on CP helis, the settings (pitch curve, throttle curve) in the transmitter are VERY important for how the heli behaves.
2) before trying 3D flying with a RC heli, it is mandatory to train on a simulator program, otherwise you have good chances to crash within seconds !

Hope you understood something...

Quote:
would love to see a 2 screen vid of of someone flying one and what their hands are doing. Any one seen one?
I saw this on youtube but can't remember where. When you see how the throttle stick is manipulated while 3D flying, oh my God !!

Roland

P.S. I'm a newbie in helis, maybe others have more information
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 01:54 PM
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Thanks Rollmops67, I do. I am not interested in 3D so your example #1 is what I a after. You setup the Tx so that the pitch changes at a certain throttle setting and off you go. That's what I was looking for.

So do all 6ch Txs have this Normal and 3D setting?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 02:31 PM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Thanks Rollmops67, I do. I am not interested in 3D so your example #1 is what I a after. You setup the Tx so that the pitch changes at a certain throttle setting and off you go. That's what I was looking for.

So do all 6ch Txs have this Normal and 3D setting?
All 6ch have normal and a least 1 stunt mode, mine has 2 stunt modes on a 3 position switch. Rollmops67 explained it pretty well.
I was not interested in 3D either, but started playing on the Phoenix sim and it grows on you. I spend about 20 minutes twice a day and 5 minutes of that is general flying and the other 15 minutes is doing flips, rolls, and flying/ hovering upside down. The hoving gives me some problem yet.
Once you try it, if you work at it, you'll love it.
And yes, the sim is very important. Of my CP helis, the HK 250 is the only one I have ever had training gear on and my 400 and 450 have never been crashed yet. No 3D yet as I'm still chicken, but soon.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoersender View Post
I'm using 3 Turnigy Nano-Techs right now. They're working like a charm!

One of these:

Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 2S 25~50C Lipo Pack
around 20mins of flight time

And two of these:

Turnigy nano-tech 2000mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack
around 17-18mins of flight time
Good thing about the 2000mAh ones: They weight only 8gr more than the stock ones
But the F45 can easily handle the 2200mAh's weight with the stock motor.

I can really recommend the Turnigy Nano-Techs... They're boosting the helicopter a lot


and about charging: I'm charging the stock battery pack with 5A in lipo program mode and didnt have any problem what so ever.
But I'm only charging the packs in a lipo safe bag... I dont want to set fire to the whole house if something happens
Have you done any other upgrades on your helicopter?
Is it really worth having a battery that can keep the heli in the air for 15+ minutes is people are saying you should only fly for 8-10?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
Unplug the tail and see if the main will spin up. If not, the PCB is probably fried. I think if the tail is shorting out, the pcb will also shut down.
Yes, indeedy. Main rotor spins up fine with the tail motor unplugged. Whew! Thanks for helping me figure it out. And now...I wait for China Post...again...
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 04:11 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Canada, BC
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totse View Post
Have you done any other upgrades on your helicopter?
Is it really worth having a battery that can keep the heli in the air for 15+ minutes is people are saying you should only fly for 8-10?
I'm with you on this question. I went with the 2.0 and it really does power the helicopter very nicely but I don't think I've ever flown it all the way down in one go. I may be ordering another F45 and if I do I think I'll get something smaller and lighter.

That said, I do not regret buying this 2.0 - I tried the stock battery again the other day and the difference in performance is quite noticeable.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 04:20 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
War Horse -
I posted a while back about my experience with Shenzen Huowang.
In short, they sent my order to an address 2000km away. When I sent a copy of EMS tracking proving this, they refused to take any action - eventually telling me it was my job to go to Melbourne to sort it out.
Six weeks later AliExpress did give me a refund, though.
IMO, Don't deal with this firm!
PS - almost forgot, the incomplete, unstamped by EMS connote 'evidence' they offered to delay things.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 04:49 PM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
War Horse -
I posted a while back about my experience with Shenzen Huowang.
In short, they sent my order to an address 2000km away. When I sent a copy of EMS tracking proving this, they refused to take any action - eventually telling me it was my job to go to Melbourne to sort it out.
Six weeks later AliExpress did give me a refund, though.
IMO, Don't deal with this firm!
PS - almost forgot, the incomplete, unstamped by EMS connote 'evidence' they offered to delay things.
I hope someone sends one of my orders to Melbourne. I have never been there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexless
I'm with you on this question. I went with the 2.0 and it really does power the helicopter very nicely but I don't think I've ever flown it all the way down in one go. I may be ordering another F45 and if I do I think I'll get something smaller and lighter.
I think you made the right choice even though you don't fly till it's done. The higher you keep the discharged voltage, the longer the battery will live.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 04:57 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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War Horse
As a further footnote -
Don't let one or two bad orders put you off dealing with China, though I'd only deal via AliEx's escrow, or BG's paypal. In fairness, BG always seems to deliver - though certainly seem to take longer than other suppliers - and all my other orders through AliEx got here OK.
LHS price for F45 = $250. Need I say more!
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 05:06 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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BThirsk-
Melbourne - well, OK I guess. But Queensland's got my vote (no real winter here!).
However, somehow don't think Shenzen Huowang was actually offering to pay for the trip
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 12:48 AM
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Germany, BW, Göppingen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totse View Post
Have you done any other upgrades on your helicopter?
Is it really worth having a battery that can keep the heli in the air for 15+ minutes is people are saying you should only fly for 8-10?
I've done a lot to modify my helicopter...
  • ventilationslots
  • heatsinks main and tail
  • cleaning the tailboom and getting rid of the horizontal fin
  • instead of a jst plug I installed a xt60 plug
  • low voltage alarm
  • full alloy skids
  • put some glue onto the gyro so it wont crack during a crash
  • placed the canopy a bit more to the front so the heatsink fits
  • modded the stock blades so they can be bent backwards for better transportation
and now I'm waiting for the EH200 from hobbyking + esc

Normally I dont fly more than 10mins. Then I'll put her down to cool of the motors. And after that i start again. Sure you can switch batteries during that time.
But believe me, flying my nano-techs against the stock battery pack is such a big difference.
With the stock battery low voltage alarm happens after 2-3 mins. Blinking lights and beeps if I punch her upwards... and that straight for the remaining time... always beeping and blinking. Also the helicopter begins to react more slowly after the first 2 mins
With the nano-techs the indicator lights switch from green to red in the end... and soon after that the voltage buzzer beeps. And than I have to go down. But until than you have so much power... no voltage and power drops during the flight
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 01:14 AM
Hangin' for a strong SW
slothy89's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Sebastopol
Joined Apr 2012
740 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoersender View Post
Normally I dont fly more than 10mins. Then I'll put her down to cool of the motors. And after that i start again. Sure you can switch batteries during that time.
But believe me, flying my nano-techs against the stock battery pack is such a big difference.
With the stock battery low voltage alarm happens after 2-3 mins. Blinking lights and beeps if I punch her upwards... and that straight for the remaining time... always beeping and blinking. Also the helicopter begins to react more slowly after the first 2 mins
With the nano-techs the indicator lights switch from green to red in the end... and soon after that the voltage buzzer beeps. And than I have to go down. But until than you have so much power... no voltage and power drops during the flight
Question... What do you have the Low Voltage alarm set to? for it to go off so soon, I'm thinking around 3.7v? I set it to 3.3v for the stock battery, and it got around 8-10 minutes before it would beep regularly. Around 5 minutes in, any strong Throttle punches would causes a brief beep as the voltage sagged.

With my Turnigy batteries, I have the LV set to 3.6v this gives me 12 ish minutes flying before it beeps.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 01:52 AM
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Germany, BW, Göppingen
Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by slothy89 View Post
Question... What do you have the Low Voltage alarm set to? for it to go off so soon, I'm thinking around 3.7v? I set it to 3.3v for the stock battery, and it got around 8-10 minutes before it would beep regularly. Around 5 minutes in, any strong Throttle punches would causes a brief beep as the voltage sagged.

With my Turnigy batteries, I have the LV set to 3.6v this gives me 12 ish minutes flying before it beeps.
I installed this one:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/180941877978?...84.m1439.l2649

The voltage value is preset. Around 3,4V or 3,3V
I bought the smaller one because it fits directly below the tail boom:



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