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Old May 20, 2012, 12:10 AM
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Parkk's Avatar
Near Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2008
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Great job in every department, I enjoyed it very much!
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Old May 20, 2012, 10:14 AM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,225 Posts
Wow! Dave that is a superb piece of modelling and flying. It is hard to tell from that last video whether it is a model or real, coming round with flaps and the prop blades visible is an awesome sight (great video person you have there). Maybe in the future you can have someone else fly while you just watch and admire. And it looks like it flies at a very scale speed --- the plus of stick and tissue lightness !! You certainly show that not all multis have to fly around like bumble bees -- nothing worse than a 600 mph B-17 etc.
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Old May 20, 2012, 10:57 AM
Balsa&Tissue
payne9999's Avatar
United States, OR, Beaverton
Joined Jan 2011
2,350 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Wow! Dave that is a superb piece of modelling and flying. It is hard to tell from that last video whether it is a model or real, coming round with flaps and the prop blades visible is an awesome sight (great video person you have there). Maybe in the future you can have someone else fly while you just watch and admire. And it looks like it flies at a very scale speed --- the plus of stick and tissue lightness !! You certainly show that not all multis have to fly around like bumble bees -- nothing worse than a 600 mph B-17 etc.
Thanks, it does fly pretty much scale. Even with the 400 size motors there is no excess of power. I rolls shorter and climbs out steeper than scale but it certainly cruises about right. There was a guy who wrote a very convincing paper on scale speed, wing loading, overall weight etc. but I have not run the math to see where the plane is performing I just look at it and try to see if it looks right.

The 300 motors where a bit of a guess and sizing up to 400's was too but it seemed to work out.

It is raining today but yesterday I flew through about 12 battery cycles (about 120 minutes flight time) and not one issue came up. I am really happy with the plane.

The finish is far from where I would like it (it looks better in pictures than it is) but I love flying it. Eventually I would like to do a sheeted version so you don't see all the formers and stringers but for now it is a blast to fly.

One other thing, I gotta say that E-Flite hit it right out of the park with their retract line. I have 2 sets and they are the best and way easier to use and install than Robart. They just work every time and if the gear legs get tweaked and don't go up they have a sensor in them that stops the gear and prevents battery drain from a stalled servo. They are worth the hundred dollars or so they cost.

Hobbypartz has a similar set of mains only (no nose gear set) for a lot less but I have had issues with their service so I have a hard time wanting to order anything from Nitroplanes/Hobbypoartz.

Dave
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Old May 20, 2012, 12:45 PM
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AlexanderB's Avatar
Braunschweig, Germany
Joined Sep 2006
1,316 Posts
Dave,

Congrats to the maiden in your thread as well

She really looks beautifully in the air. I wish I would be as far with my SIX.

Cheers Alexander
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Old May 20, 2012, 03:12 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,225 Posts
Dave, done my fair share of "scale" building over the last 50 years and often times it becomes a PITA -- I think seeing the stringers/spars is very nostalgic for us old stick and tissue guys -- more of my future builds are going this way and it is the way to achieve scale similitude (I think that is the word!) at these small model sizes.

Any chance of giving Manzano a cut file?
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Old May 20, 2012, 04:45 PM
Balsa&Tissue
payne9999's Avatar
United States, OR, Beaverton
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Dave, done my fair share of "scale" building over the last 50 years and often times it becomes a PITA -- I think seeing the stringers/spars is very nostalgic for us old stick and tissue guys -- more of my future builds are going this way and it is the way to achieve scale similitude (I think that is the word!) at these small model sizes.

Any chance of giving Manzano a cut file?
Well, I didn't design it so I wouldn't feel comfortable having someone laser cut it even if I had DXF (electronic) files. I hand cut mine from photo-enlargements of the plans and parts from my original build of Pat's Custom Models 60" short kit. I changed several things to make it support the extra size and weight but it is still not mine.

I asked permission in the beginning of the project to tool the cowls etc. and Pat was fine with me building a larger one and having Sparky vac form the cowls. I suppose someone could ask to buy a set of plans from Pat and for permission from Pat to get an enlarged set of parts cut from Charlie at Manzano. Sparky at Parkflyer Plastics has the tooling for the cowlings and when I paid for the tooling mods (from my 3d prototype) I told hem he could certainly sell them to anyone who wanted some.

http://www.patscustom-models.com/shortkit2.html
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Old May 20, 2012, 05:15 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,225 Posts
I understand the issue of ownership here so will run this by Pat and Charlie just to see if they might be willing to allow a plan blow-up or be able to cut at a larger size. I doubt that there would be a big market for this model anyway so not holding my breath. I would presume that you sized up the wood in strategic areas? Did you use spruce spars/stringers --- I think Pat used a lot of balsa in the 60" version

I should be the last one looking to build this as I have the plans, plastics and Charlie's short kit for Phil Noells 88" Super Connie ! The tail parts are done but I couldn't locate the gearboxes (not made anymore) for the Speed 480's (which I have) that Phil used so put the whole thing aside, 4 x brushless would strain the budget.
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Old May 20, 2012, 06:21 PM
This is a fine fiddly business
Robert R's Avatar
United States, WA, Marysville
Joined May 2009
1,278 Posts
Dave,

I realize everyone on this thread is trying to do the right thing. No one was trying to get something for nothing. That is clear from reading the posts.

Your response to the quite understandable requests for plans and parts demonstrates honor and integrity. That is a very good thing.

Best,
Robert
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Old May 20, 2012, 06:32 PM
Balsa&Tissue
payne9999's Avatar
United States, OR, Beaverton
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
I understand the issue of ownership here so will run this by Pat and Charlie just to see if they might be willing to allow a plan blow-up or be able to cut at a larger size. I doubt that there would be a big market for this model anyway so not holding my breath. I would presume that you sized up the wood in strategic areas? Did you use spruce spars/stringers --- I think Pat used a lot of balsa in the 60" version

I should be the last one looking to build this as I have the plans, plastics and Charlie's short kit for Phil Noells 88" Super Connie ! The tail parts are done but I couldn't locate the gearboxes (not made anymore) for the Speed 480's (which I have) that Phil used so put the whole thing aside, 4 x brushless would strain the budget.
Yes, I used another more rigid material. I seem to be heavy handed so when I pick up a stringer fuselage I tend to break the stringers in everday handling. So on all of Pat's models I built whether original size or a variant, I use paulownia wood from Georgia. It is about 10-20% heavier than balsa but about 3-4 times stronger. If I remember correctly Pat said the same thing about a limited market for planes over about 60" and even over 50". 50" seems to be a magic size for transportability and to get the plane under the "Park-flyer" weight limit. Right now he has an Orion P-3 at about 84" that won't be kitted but Manzano will cut it to order and Pat will sell the plans. I am planning to do this one in the near future.

I had no idea there was an 88" super Connie. Oh crap here goes another pile of money going out of my wallet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert R View Post
Dave,

I realize everyone on this thread is trying to do the right thing. No one was trying to get something for nothing. That is clear from reading the posts.

Your response to the quite understandable requests for plans and parts demonstrates honor and integrity. That is a very good thing.

Best,
Robert
No problem Robert, I didn't think anyone was. Others have asked if I was going to "kit" this and I couldn't ever do it. If Manzano ever did offer a cut set for this model I would probably buy it too and build another one
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Old May 20, 2012, 08:47 PM
Balsa and Foam can Coexist
WAGliderGuy's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Feb 2010
1,877 Posts
Congratulations on the great maiden! The last landing in the third video was perfect - and I have to agree it looks very scale coming in on final. The retracts look good too

The P-3 Orion is on my list of models I really want to build. The Whidbey Island Naval Air Station up north has a large amount of them and they are a commen site up there. Very cool plane!

P-3C Orion Performs A Touch-And-Go At NUW (1 min 31 sec)


Ethan
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Old May 20, 2012, 09:10 PM
Balsa&Tissue
payne9999's Avatar
United States, OR, Beaverton
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAGliderGuy View Post
Congratulations on the great maiden! The last landing in the third video was perfect - and I have to agree it looks very scale coming in on final. The retracts look good too

The P-3 Orion is on my list of models I really want to build. The Whidbey Island Naval Air Station up north has a large amount of them and they are a commen site up there. Very cool plane!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb7gkV5FAP8

Ethan
Ethan,

There is an 84" version and a 60" version from Pat. I am opting for 84"!

Dang, I can't wait to build one.

Dave
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Thebigred1's Avatar
The Netherlands, OV, Balkbrug
Joined May 2012
96 Posts
Hi! nice build man!
I`ve got a question: what sizes of wood did you use for the fuselage "sub-structure", the ribs and formers?
It would really help me because at the moment, i`ve got a bit of a bite-more-than-you-can-chew project. Trying to build an Fokker F.XX and this method of construction would be the best for me.

Greetz, Marco
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 06:44 PM
Balsa&Tissue
payne9999's Avatar
United States, OR, Beaverton
Joined Jan 2011
2,350 Posts
The original design called for 1/16" formers and 3/32" Stringers. I sized the design up from 60" wingspan to 80" so the formers are 3/32" and the stringers are 1/8" but the stringers are not balsa but paulownia wood. Paulownia is much stronger almost liek spruce but almost as light as balsa.

Dave
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 10:30 PM
Balsa&Tissue
payne9999's Avatar
United States, OR, Beaverton
Joined Jan 2011
2,350 Posts
DC-6 Update

Well, it has been over a year now flying the enlarged Six and I have had almost now issues in literally hundreds of flights. I had one servo failure and one incident that was my fault but because of the great flying characteristics of this plane I was able to save it during both of the in-flight emergencies.

Incidents:

1. A servo wire became intermittent and the elevator was in and out. Very scary but I used the throttles to bring it in with no elevator and had a bad landing but no real damage.

2. On takeoff during a practice run at a fly-in, I had my finger on the retract switch to pull the gear up after the plane had 50 feet or so under it. Well I bumped the switch right as the plane was getting light on the takeoff run. It dipped it's right wing ever so slightly and sheared off all six prop blades on the right side. I was at critical speed and near the end of the runway and 40 feet or so from a lake. So, I pulled her into the air (just barely) and circled the field with almost full opposite rudder and landed without an issue. What a dumb move though.

The plane continues to fly and is a joy to land and shoot touch and goes with.

Dave
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 10:32 PM
Balsa and Foam can Coexist
WAGliderGuy's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Feb 2010
1,877 Posts
Great to hear your DC-6 is going strong.

BTW, did you get my PM from a few weeks ago? Not sure if chrome sent it before my internet went down.

Ethan
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