Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 01:46 PM
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
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Originally Posted by NJSwede View Post
I have TGY2216 in my Slick and they have performed flawlessly so far.
They are working for me too. On my son's EPP plane, he burnt out a motor doing a taxi test because I set the end points beyond the mechanical stops, so you have to blame me for not setting his plane up right for the taxi test. Replaced the servo with a spare I had, set the end point correctly for the elevator, and he has put four batteries through the plane without problem.

On this HK SLick plane, I am going to use the savox equivalents, unless I use the somewhere else. Based on my bench testing, they are the same servo as the turnigy, but a little quieter.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 02:39 PM
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I don't know about you all but I would never want my motor at 150 or more. If mine are over 130 then I am looking at options to prevent it.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by losifanatic View Post
I don't know about you all but I would never want my motor at 150 or more. If mine are over 130 then I am looking at options to prevent it.
Yeah, I agree. I'll tolerate 140 on a hot day.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 03:16 PM
Prefectionist
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Even crappy Neodymium magnets are good to 176F. I mesure at the base of the motor which is usually hotter than the spinning can. Anyway, I'm not here to defend or promote my setup. I'm simply stating the data and facts.

An interesting test would be for somebody with a cooing hold would fly a few batteries with the hole covered and then uncovered taking temp readings.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/specs.asp
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 03:34 PM
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We're not attacking you. It's your property, and if you're happy with your setup, you already know you can keep doing what you're doing.

However, for others, they may also want to consider our alternative points of view, such as the effect of increased temperature on the glue that holds the magnets, the effect of temperature on winding resistence and overall efficiency, the effect of temperature on bearing life, the effect of temperature on shaft strength, etc.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by losifanatic View Post
I don't know about you all but I would never want my motor at 150 or more. If mine are over 130 then I am looking at options to prevent it.
+1, cooler is always better. I try not to waste electrons on heat.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
+1, cooler is always better. I try not to waste electrons on heat.
Good advice but bear in mind that adding extra cooling so that an overheating motor runs cooler isn't actually doing much to improve efficiency. All you do my adding cooling is dissipate the heat, you don't stop energy being wasted to produce the heat in the firstplace.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Would hitec hs81 or 82 servos be suitable. For those plane or still not enough torque.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Good advice but bear in mind that adding extra cooling so that an overheating motor runs cooler isn't actually doing much to improve efficiency. All you do my adding cooling is dissipate the heat, you don't stop energy being wasted to produce the heat in the firstplace.
Huh, cooler wiring has less resistance and less energy wasted in the form of heat. Beside, you don't add cooling, you remove heat which is always a good thing. And I'm not meaning you run a motor too hot to begin with, I'm more referring to just running it cooler to begin with for better efficiency. It's all about using the right prop and sufficient air flow to not burn up a motor.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 10:29 PM
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United States, AK, Anchorage
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I forgot to cut a hole on my AJ slick on maiden, realized that after I felt my battery warmer then I like it. Anyways I'm sure it helps a lot with ESC and motors, but I am also concerned about batteries getting hot without airflow. Not to mention you could charge battery sooner (I don't put batteries on the charge until they cool)
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
Huh, cooler wiring has less resistance and less energy wasted in the form of heat. Beside, you don't add cooling, you remove heat which is always a good thing. And I'm not meaning you run a motor too hot to begin with, I'm more referring to just running it cooler to begin with for better efficiency. It's all about using the right prop and sufficient air flow to not burn up a motor.
Actually cooling the wire (within reason) doesnt make a huge difference to the resistance. But I agree that cooling is a good thing, my point was only that it doesnt significantly (if at all) increase efficiency.

For example if you cooled your motor by 20 F it would lower wire resistance by about 4%.. But wire resistance in a motor is very low in the firstplace. Typical resistance of a winding for a motor of the Slick size may be 0.03ohms. 4% of 0.03 is 0.0012ohms, so by cooling by 20F you reduce the wire resistance in the windings by about 0.0012ohms.

Power in watts wasted due to resistance is:

P = I^2 * R

So for a motor drawing 60 Amps:

P = 60^2 * 0.0012 = 4.3W

So in this simplified case you might save 4.3W of heat (out of a total of maybe 200W-250W) but in fact in reality you wouldnt save even 4.3W because if you let the motor heat up the current would fall slightly due to the increased resistance which would in itself reduce the power lost to heat..
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 09:19 AM
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Ha... It may keep the motor running efficiently longer.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 03:31 PM
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What JetPlaneFlyer said.

Cooling motors is good for bearing life, magnet glue life, shaft collar set screw loctite life, less uneven thermal expansion as the temperature ramps, stronger shafts, stronger motor mounts, magnet strength retention, etc. It will improve efficiency, but probably only marginally, as jet plane flyer points out.

Cooling ESCs is good for a variety of reasons, too. Power FETs have a positive temperature coefficient. The effect may be large or small (I haven't done the math, and I'm being lazy right now). I'm not sure if ESCs have any diodes, but diodes are affected by temperature. As is capacitance. Electrolitic capacitors will age faster at higher temperatures. ESCs and BECs may have a thermal shutdown point, and increasing temperature reduces your margin. Increasing temperature of integrated circuilts results in more noise, and reduces resolution on any A2D circuits (e.g., for measuring back EMF, current, etc.)

Cooling batteries is probably good for battery life from what I understand, though I haven't looked into the optimal lipo temperature. I remember reading that lipos have negative temperture coefficients.

In short, and without regard to looks or effect on flight, cooling holes and improving ESC heatsink exposure to air are no brainers as far as I am concerned.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 04:40 PM
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I find it hilarious that my post stating what is currently working for me has taken this thread so far off topic.

I hope others find the information posted by everybody instructing and useful.

Cooler is almost always better in electronics. I would hazard a bet that the life expectancy difference and efficiency difference between my "hot" system and the same system with cooling holes is for practical purposes.... negligible.

without testing to failure of multiple copies of the same system both with and without a cooling hole we'll never know. I'm running a $30.00 motor and a $20.00 esc with $20.00 batteries, Arguing about life expectancy and efficiency of this system is like arguing which used car has better rust on it.

Others have broken and worn out this same motor in less time WITH cooling holes. So ether cooling holes hurt, or they are not the primary factor in motor failure (aka KE spins are probably more dangerous).

If this was a high end plane with high end electronics and expensive batteries, maybe i'd be more concerned about efficiency, but then again the plane would be designed better wouldn't it?
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by creapyd View Post
I hope others find the information posted by everybody instructing and useful.
As that is the purpose (we already know you have your mind made up), I hope so too. Some other people might find, for example, that the lockouts they blame on their radios no longer occur because they pay attention to details.

Regarding throw away low cost components--the money you're talking about is not pocket change for others (e.g., my son.). My son is 11, and doesn't earn money at the rate you probably do, so $30 to him is a lot of money. In many parts of World, $20 is still a lot of money to an adult. But how you consider your money is your business. I'm only pointing out that different people have different views on money. And we're not PMing you...just talking about some of the reasons why some others might want to put air egress holes on their planes.
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