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Old Aug 08, 2012, 12:07 PM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I think if you compare the two videos the difference is night and day.. I did do one right hand circuit in the vid but for some strange reason I always feel more comfortable going left when harriering, not just with the slick, with all my planes.

the limitations of the flight envelope in the vid are due to me, not the model.

If 'felt' 100% better, maybe not quite as stable as the EF edge but not far off.
Is this in conjunction with your leading edge mods?
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 12:33 PM
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United States, TN, Nashville
Joined Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Very good point, and I guess stuff like this is the hidden work the the likes of 3DHS and EF have done to get their models to fly the way they do.
This is one of the big reasons why I avoid the big companies who try to "wal-mart" this hobby. They are more concerned with volume than quality. These post stall issues sparked up debates within the first few flight reports. If us average joe hobbyists were able to figure out these issues so quickly, there couldn't have been any tests done on this plane prior to production. And if there were tests done, that sucks even more because it shows how piss poor their designers really are. My guess is it would have cost money to fix these issues, so they just ran the production anyways.

I think what really bothered me was the comments at the beginning where the HK guy said they made numerous "improvements" to AJ's design, despite him saying he'd never seen AJ's design. You can't just give a plane huge control surfaces and call it 3d! Also on the color scheme they didn't even attempt to make it different, the exact same lines just moved around slightly, with the same color progression, and almost an identical SLICK font.

I think you have pointed out great flaws and have offered some good proof to show how they could have fixed it, but enlarging a rudder that much is ridiculous and would no doubt bring more negative traits to the plane. Also shaving off the leading edge is impractical. So while your efforts have not gone unnoticed, they are just impractical solutions as mods for buyers of this plane. By the time you've spent the money and time to mod, you may as well have gotten the original..
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Is this in conjunction with your leading edge mods?
Yes, but I'm not sure if the leading edge mod really made any difference. If others can try similar rudder extensions with the standard wing then that would confirm.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Here's the vid after i cut down the extension to a more visually acceptable size:

HK Slick 'a-rockin' just a bit (3 min 25 sec)


Some rock has returned but it's a lot better than it was originally and never got out of shape at all.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Interestingly, if you look at the vertical stab/rudder on the AJ Slick you can see it's much taller than the HK version with a much bigger vertical extension above the fixed part of the stab, strikingly similar to the trimmed down version of my rudder extension:


Makes me wonder if AJ years ago may have went through a similar exercise to what I've just done?

Also the vertical stab/rudder of the AJ model is set a couple of inches further back, sticking out well behind the horizontal stab. I think that's likely to be very significant as it puts the rudder in clear air when in high alpha, but sadly not easy to retro-fit on the HK version.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 03:41 PM
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kings lynn, norfolk uk
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My slick turned up today. Looks real nice. Gonna be a few weeks before i get it in the air though. Not really related to the slick but, is related to the motor problems a few pages back. Was flying my extra today doing some spins and stuff. Went to fly out of one of them and got no power from the motor and had to do an impromptu landing. Looking at the motor the motor you can now pull the can forwards about 4mm. And the grub screws holding the shaft in are loose again. As this has happened before. Are the spins etc causing this.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 06:57 PM
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South Africa, GP, Pretoria
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Really... that's uncalled for. I can see why you can't discuss "the whole gyro thing" without offending people. Offending people just comes naturally I guess. You jumped down my throat with no provocation a while back. You apologized. I'm glad I never accepted 'cuz here you are again.

BTW, my fully AS3X-ized UMX Sbach can do both poptops and blenders. I don't think there's enough mass to swing into a KE spin. But having the wing oriented vertically should pose no problem for a gyro.

However I can see a gyro leading to a crash. It masks stuff until it's too late. Happens when hovering a Beast 3D a lot. Once it breaks out it's really all over... there's nothing left to recover.
Erkq
That was really not aimed at jumping down your throat.I just have a thing against using gyro's on a plane.yeah I remember that and apologise again for that.Really wasn't my intention.I merely replied to your suggestion of a gyro.IMO 3d means skill above the rest.it's pushing the limit of both plane and pilot to do what it shouldn't and IMO is an art.so why mess the exclusivity of that with the means of a gyro.call me insensitive,but imho if u wanna stick a gyro on a plane,maybe one should rather fly a more agile plane.or easier.look I'm really all for trying new things but I just can't get myself over putting a gyro in a plane.and it adds weight
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 07:16 PM
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Steve your findings are interesting most definitely.It's something I did note but never cared to mention or really think of is that the rudder on the AJ does stick out "higher"
I do believe that a higher AOA will be more accurate in the diagnosis though.It looks like you are "steering" with rudder,which would induce more rock.Did you use rudder at all in your harriers?is your cg dead neutral?
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 09:36 PM
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Remarkable discovery Steve... Well done! There was certainly a marked improvement in harrier behavior. Did you manage to try a higher AOA to see if flew better? Am now wondering if HK will use your discovery and release a v2 claiming they have done extensive r&d to make the slick better...
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by xzuberance View Post
Remarkable discovery Steve... Well done! There was certainly a marked improvement in harrier behavior. Did you manage to try a higher AOA to see if flew better? Am now wondering if HK will use your discovery and release a v2 claiming they have done extensive r&d to make the slick better...
Jerome, I fixed it for you:

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Am now wondering if HK will use your discovery and release a v2 claiming they have done extensive intellectual property theft to make the slick better...
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chop stiX View Post
Steve your findings are interesting most definitely.It's something I did note but never cared to mention or really think of is that the rudder on the AJ does stick out "higher"
I do believe that a higher AOA will be more accurate in the diagnosis though.It looks like you are "steering" with rudder,which would induce more rock.Did you use rudder at all in your harriers?is your cg dead neutral?
My skill level is the limiting factor on harrier AoA, the closer it gets to hover the more i struggle, with any of my planes... But hey; i'm slowly getting better. I do manage to hold a higher AoA with my Edge EXP, but that 's not known as the '3D cheater' for no reason!

Yes, I steer with rudder and use ailerons to hold the wing's level. In straight flight i generally don't touch the rudder unless it veers off the straight path. I did notice with the Slick that any application of rudder tended to set the rocking off, which was one of the things that made be think 'Dutch Roll'.

Funny thing is that from my freeflight modelling days if I'd been getting wing rock in normal flight I'd have immediately diagnosed Dutch Roll and added fin area. But somehow the old brain took ages to make the link this time as I was thinking that it must be something peculiar to post stall flight rather than any 'normal' issue that I'd come across before.
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 02:21 AM
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Try harriering with no rudder input.Rudder will induce rock even more though.Look i'm by no means an expert,just a few things I've picked up.
Looking forward to see the new rudder
Xzub still no joy regarding your fuse?
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 05:20 AM
Where's my orange kool-aid?
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Australia, VIC, Boronia
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Originally Posted by -= GYRO =- View Post
Jerome, I fixed it for you:
Lol! You sure know how to stir the pot Gary
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 05:30 AM
Where's my orange kool-aid?
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Australia, VIC, Boronia
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Originally Posted by chop stiX View Post
Try harriering with no rudder input.Rudder will indue rock even more though.Look i'm by no means an expert,just a few things I've picked up.
Looking forward to see the new rudder
Xzub still no joy regarding your fuse?
Got fed up with the whole deal and took the fuse back from oz post. Fixed (more like patched) all of the damage save for the crumple and hole in the covering. Was gonna fix these issues when the EF local distributor here had a 1 day deal for the 48" edge. Bought that and am gonna use the stuff originally planned for the slick in it. Planning to sell off slick 'as is' for anyone interested, but I might end up building it if there are no takers. Kinda lost interest with the slick after all the fiasco I had with the posties and HK. Still have my skywing, 3dhs and PA birds to keep me occupied, so it doesn't really matter. Though if Steve has indeed for the 'cure' for the wing drop I might just build it and fly it like stole it
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 03:52 PM
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kings lynn, norfolk uk
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Could someone point me in the direction of some ball links suitable for this plane. As i want to change the supplied ones for carbon rod and ball links. Im not sure what size i need. Thanks.
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