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Old Aug 11, 2012, 01:45 AM
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lols Prof I like that. I just damaged one of my HXT900 servo on my aileron after I did a violent inverted diving recovery switch from 3D to 2D.

Now going back to 3 way switch of 2D/Off/3D, after analyzing my situation, I think there's a purposed why the sequence is like that instead of Off/2d/3d. It has to do with "panic brain" as I say it because there will be the time when your mind is in panicky blank and just want to do an emergency recovery and you do not want to overshoot from 3d to 2d and going to OFF mode instead, right folks? With my case, I really hit the switch hard which I will overshoot the switches if its in off/2d/3d.. Thank goodness its 2D/OFF/3D, that saved the day... weeeeh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I applied and saved the config file with a unique name.

I sure wish the instructions for this device were a bit more explicit. I want to see one Question and Answer added to the Troubleshooting:

Troubleshooting / FAQ
Question: I keep destroying Hobbyking HXT900 analog servos when using the Guardian.

Answer: To reduce the possibilty of over rotating and destroying those cheap a$$ servos you need to go to the Servo Configuration tab in the software and enable custom and set the Minimum up by 100 and reduce the Maxium by 100, apply and save the configuration, test throws by powering up the plane and check for binding in 2d and 3D modes. That is roll, pitch and yaw the plane with no transmitter input. If no binding is found you are good to go test fly the plane with new settings. If still binding go back and further reduce throws for the servo that is binding.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 02:24 AM
Never fly an A model anything!
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I am planning on fitting the ET Guardian to quite a large 3D model with 60g standard size servos. I can "y" the ailerons.

Is it possible to configure the aux port on the Giardina to drive a second elevator servo?.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 04:29 AM
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hey jayb1rds,
purely speculation but, they might be mapping the signal through the roll axis pot., easy enough to verify though.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 05:09 AM
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quoted from everydayflyer post #1437,
[quote]
" If I use Flaperons on a 3D plane and deploy aile. as flaps or spoilers then I can not use full aile. throw without overdriving and stalling the servos unless I use D/R at reduced throws.

Same thing when I have flaps / spoilers coupled to the Evev. for extremely tight loops.

These above example are valid without a Guardian 2D / 3D installed."
[quote]

with my er9x i can have the guardian on a 3 way and have the ability to have a virtual switch, a real switch or a vr knob give me a "dual rates" type of set up in whichever mode i'm in, 2d or 3d because, if i understand it correctly this scenario doesn't exist in guardian firmware and that's where it would have to be because it doesn't recognize tx dual rates.
that's what i would like for an addition to guardian, i guess it would be called sub-mode dual rates or something.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 05:28 AM
Never fly an A model anything!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchldpy View Post
hey jayb1rds,
purely speculation but, they might be mapping the signal through the roll axis pot., easy enough to verify though.

michael clyde
Thanks M, that is what I discovered but it would be good if Aux was really an Aux and not an Ail 2 and was assignable for such cases. I was hoping i missed something in the advanxed section More and more models are coming out with dual elevator since Aileron differential can be achieved mechanically.

Making Aux assignable is my request for future upgrades.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 05:31 AM
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yurstruly,
my tx allows me to put it in any order i want and i chose 2d/off/3d for the reason you mention. it's sure easier for me to slam it up to the stop and know it's in 2d then trying to ease it to the middle detent or having 2d on the bottom, as slow as i am, which is probably the reason i'm needing it in recovery mode in the first place.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 05:43 AM
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Updated

to billpa
Feature Request
the ability to turn some features on and or off in flight like when in 3d mode, turn direct rates on to show off and then turn it back off.
as usual there is probably something wrong with this reasoning so this request may change... again

thanks,
michael clyde
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 06:51 AM
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I was going to put one in my Yak 54 with split elevators. I will have to fudge it with the Hitec Servo Programmer. Luckily they are Hitec digitals and can be programmed for direction as well as end points.

I agree need split elevators more than separate ailerons. However, it would be good to have both, which would entail another set servo in/out pins. Also, you might have to make it individually programmable for endpoints. While we are at it, maybe 5 - 7 points curves for the dual elevators, perhaps, to make sure it doesn't also act as tailerons.

chewy

PS: I bought and have received two (2) units from the Taiwanese dealer. The price is standard, but the postage is cheaper and faster.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 08:49 AM
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Split elevator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
So, how do you set it up with a model using independent channels for each of elevator and ailerons? It looks like - with the AUX output - you could do one of those but not both?
.
Did you get an answer? I use ch2 and ch5 for dual elevator servos . The TX mixes OK but the Guardian only controls Ch2, however I set the mix. I cannot use a Y lead as the servos work in the wrong direction
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 09:21 AM
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Purpose of that post was to show that even without Guardian that some Trans. mixs are capable of over drivingthe servos at certain stick positions and combos.
There seemed to be several who were saying that Guard was the issue with servo travle being to great. A proper setup IMO will be of a mechanical natire that lets servo extend to max and the control surfaces reach max. at that same point.

When Guardian is off the the DR / reduced signal from the Trans. is passed thru. With Guardian installed and in 3D mode I find I have no need of DR so set controls up for desire max. throw in high rate as Guardian does a great job of smothing out the plane.

Charles


[QUOTE=mchldpy;22416786]quoted from everydayflyer post #1437,
[quote]
" If I use Flaperons on a 3D plane and deploy aile. as flaps or spoilers then I can not use full aile. throw without overdriving and stalling the servos unless I use D/R at reduced throws.

Same thing when I have flaps / spoilers coupled to the Evev. for extremely tight loops.

These above example are valid without a Guardian 2D / 3D installed."
Quote:

with my er9x i can have the guardian on a 3 way and have the ability to have a virtual switch, a real switch or a vr knob give me a "dual rates" type of set up in whichever mode i'm in, 2d or 3d because, if i understand it correctly this scenario doesn't exist in guardian firmware and that's where it would have to be because it doesn't recognize tx dual rates.
that's what i would like for an addition to guardian, i guess it would be called sub-mode dual rates or something.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
I agree need split elevators more than separate ailerons.
That would make an interesting poll perhaps.

I have been flying RC since 1963 and have never had a plane with duel elevator servos but have many with duel ail. servos.

It seems to me that a Y-harness with servo reverser can solve the duel elevator issue and as pointed out there are many programable digital servos for those who are runing multi servos per control surface. There are also numerious servo matchers and I believe on high power digitals they are a necessity anyway to supply the higher amps. required by these be it multi batteries or ESCs or both.

Charles.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 10:58 AM
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so charles,
to get the tight loops i can flip tx sw. mixing flaps to elevator and in 3d with direct rate speed pitch set just high enough so it doesn't tear the plane apart it will not drive my servos any farther than already set limits anyway.
if that's the case then my feature request should be the ability to switch some modes on and off in flight instead of sub modes
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
That would make an interesting poll perhaps.

I have been flying RC since 1963 and have never had a plane with duel elevator servos but have many with duel ail. servos.

It seems to me that a Y-harness with servo reverser can solve the duel elevator issue and as pointed out there are many programable digital servos for those who are runing multi servos per control surface. There are also numerious servo matchers and I believe on high power digitals they are a necessity anyway to supply the higher amps. required by these be it multi batteries or ESCs or both.

Charles.
Charles,

Servo matchers are good, but can cost more than the plane itself. The problem with just using a simple reverser is that you cannot get the servos to move mechanically perfectly. One side may not be lined up the same as the other. Any inconsistency with the angles of the servo horns will cause inconsistent movement between the 2 sides of the elevator, hence the mention of "tailerons" in my previous post.

If you use subtrims to line them up, together with the EPA, it may work, but I think it may be quite difficult to achieve that with the auto response from the Guardian from fiddling with the parameters in the computer program. Not impossible, mind, just difficult. Fiddling with a servo programmer is probably even worse. First you would have to use the servo programmer to match the neutral, then the end-points. This is not a simple fixed ms pulse width for both sides, as the actual travel may not be the same for both side even with the same ms pulse due to the linkage geometry being just slightly off. You have to actually measure the the travel of the control surfaces for both sides of the elevator, then adjust the amount of rotation for each servo. Might be better to work with two servo programmers at the same time.

Then you have to go into the transmitter to limit the EPA to the programmed pulse width and then do the same for the Guardian.

Then you will have to check that at low rates, the travel is the same for the same max stick movement. This is by no means guaranteed. I have tried it - I know it is not perfect unless I use multi-point curves for the slave servo. All this means that if you have matched the servos at max travels, at points less than max, the control surfaces may not match exactly, although it will be mostly good enough.

Can anyone think of a simple way to do the above? Otherwise, the elevators will act as tailerons due to uneven travel from the same pulse width with a Y-cable.

Ailerons, on the other hand does not suffer from the same "fiddly-ness". It doesn't really matter if one travels up more than the other travels down, and vice versa. You only really need to match the mechanical neutral point. This doesn't apply if you need flapperons or spoilerons, however. In that case you would need 2 input and 2 output for the ailerons and end up with the same fiddly-ness as the elevator, although not as important as it can be compensated somewhat by applying some aileron correction with the sticks. Not good, but can be done.

If you want to match the flapperon travels completely with both applied ailerons and with no ailerons applied, it will end up being a VERY bad job. I think it is unnecessary to match the travel perfectly in the case of flapperons/spoilerons as you would normally be constantly stirring the the ailerons sticks during flight anyway.

Hope I am making sense and am not over-thinking about this problem. That was what I had to deal with when setting up my Yak. If anyone has a better way to get VERY good, consistent travels between the 2 halves, I would be happy to learn it from anyone.

chewy
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Guardian on plane with dual servo actuated ailerons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter3642 View Post
.
Did you get an answer? I use ch2 and ch5 for dual elevator servos . The TX mixes OK but the Guardian only controls Ch2, however I set the mix. I cannot use a Y lead as the servos work in the wrong direction
I am putting a Guardian 2D/3D on a 71" Yak from Extreme Flight using two servos on elevators. I think the solution is to use a product called Equalizer II from SmartFly that allows two servos to plug into it, has ability to reverse either or both servos, plus accurately adjust center and end points on the servos while using a single channel for the elevator. This solves the elevator dilemma while still allowing dual servos for aileron control. I usually would have two channels on the elevator to accomplish this, so this facillitates having the Guardian control both without an additional Aux. I ordered it today.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Several if the bigger planes I have or have had in the past have dual elevators and are reversed from each other to keep symetry. On all of those planes, the ailerons are NOT reversed from each other and could have used or currentl use a Y. Currently, there are lots of popular planes with dual elevators out there. Mostly as you get to the 60" and more size. Why? because many mfg and others are realizing that to get rid of slop, servos are better when close to the surface. Rods and sleves flex and cause slop and that translates to control surface centring error. So it stands to reason that dual elevator is a feature that will become higher in demand in the present as well as future as gyros become more popular.
I have the Equalizer II on a giant scale P-47 (No gyros though) and they are $44 each. Like anything, it's a cost benifit thing. The Guardian costs $ and it has a benifit. It would be nice if it accomodated a reversed Elevator output and you trim it mechanically to get it right. yes, eventually, it would be cool to be able to program indepentant Elevator subtrim, min and max. That would be nice feature.

I think there are some cheaper servo reversers than the full featured equalizer II.
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