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Old Aug 03, 2012, 09:48 PM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Not sure what incident you are referring to.
I presumed from the plane that you were using a Spectrum Rx they show with their LED if there were any lost frames (brown outs) during flight by blinking the LED for the number of loss of connections experienced. I don't know about other 2.4 systems out there.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 09:52 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by alros_100 View Post
Prof100,

They are suggesting you mix 2 switches. which will actually give you 4 possible positions. But in a simple form, your primary switch can move between 2d and 3D like it is now (lets assume you have this on the gear channel). Then you program a second switch using mixes that moves the gear channel to the middle range for OFF. So the output of the second switch and the mix changes the original gear channel

Al
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Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Prof, your brain is fine.

You can't get 3 functions from the 2 position gear switch to give you 2D and 3D. Gear gives you either -100% or +100%.

Then you create a mix that when OFF doesn't affect the gear switch, when ON it gives you always 0% = OFF

So yes, you do need two switches, GEAR -> 2D or 3D and MIX -> 2D/3D (as selected by the Gear switch) or OFF.

I tried it the first time. The Guardian is switched with the 2 position flap switch and I will attempt to mix the gear switch to get off and on. I tried this when I first set it up but never got on and off working.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 09:54 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alros_100 View Post
Prof100,

They are suggesting you mix 2 switches. which will actually give you 4 possible positions. But in a simple form, your primary switch can move between 2d and 3D like it is now (lets assume you have this on the gear channel). Then you program a second switch using mixes that moves the gear channel to the middle range for OFF. So the output of the second switch and the mix changes the original gear channel

Al
Exactly; Gear= 2D/3D, Mix= on/off, and optionally Flap= low/high rate
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:00 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I tried it the first time. The Guardian is switched with the 2 position flap switch and I will attempt to mix the gear switch to get off and on. I tried this when I first set it up but never got on and off working.
I think you are a little confused, You don't mix flap and gear, you mix flap (or gear, your choice) to itself with a mix controlled by the Mix switch. With the mix off, flap= 2D/3D, with the mix on flap is forced to neutral giving Guardian a zero= off signal. This leaves the other switch (gear or flap) to be used for low/high gain if needed, but it's probably best to leave the gain out of this until the main part is working.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:38 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I think you are a little confused, You don't mix flap and gear, you mix flap (or gear, your choice) to itself with a mix controlled by the Mix switch. With the mix off, flap= 2D/3D, with the mix on flap is forced to neutral giving Guardian a zero= off signal. This leaves the other switch (gear or flap) to be used for low/high gain if needed, but it's probably best to leave the gain out of this until the main part is working.
Chooch,

Thanks, that worked with the DX6i which only has two position switches. The 2D and 3D is switched back and forth with flap switch.
The gear switch can turn the Guardian on and off.

Here is what worked with the 2 position flap switch (0 position is 3D and 1 position is 2D).

Gear in 0 position and Guardian is ON.
Gear in 1 position Guardian is OFF.

MIX 1
FLAP > FLAP
RATE D -100% U +100%
SW Gear Trim INH

Next up is figuring out gain but I am running out of channels in my receiver.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:50 PM
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Long Island, NY
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
@otrcman
@snowflake
@galand

You don't need to convince me on this. If you think jedorme's crash was caused by brownout, perhaps you could explain to him how to verify and correct the problem.
Basically what it means is that it is always a good idea to install a separate BEC/UBEC when using a stabilizer.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:54 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Chooch,

Thanks, that worked with the DX6i which only has two position switches. The 2D and 3D is switched back and forth with flap switch.
The gear switch can turn the Guardian on and off.

Here is what worked with the 2 position flap switch (0 position is 3D and 1 position is 2D).

Gear in 0 position and Guardian is ON.
Gear in 1 position Guardian is OFF.

MIX 1
FLAP > FLAP
RATE D -100% U +100%
SW Gear Trim INH

Next up is figuring out gain but I am running out of channels in my receiver.
Good, I'm glad you got that worked out. That's the most important part. To me it seems like variable gain is mostly valuable in determining in flight what the gain needs to be. Once that is established you may not need to change it again unless your model has a wide speed range EG: 3D.

If you do want to add switchable gain, however, you need to first change your existing setup slightly. Don't use the gear switch to control the mix (on/off), use the mix switch. This leaves the gear switch available to use for gain.
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Last edited by choochoo22; Aug 03, 2012 at 11:11 PM.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:59 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
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Originally Posted by Galand View Post
Basically what it means is that it is always a good idea to install a separate BEC/UBEC when using a stabilizer.
Can't argue with that. I just have the opinion that a setup problem is more likely, easier to detect and verify, easier to fix, and less expensive. I would explore setup problems first.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Good, I'm glad you got that worked out. That's the most important part. To me it seems like variable gain is mostly valuable in determining in flight what the gain needs to be. Once that is established you may not need to change it again unless your model has a wide speed range EG: 3D.

If you do want to add switchable gain, however, you need to first change your existing setup slightly. Don't use the gear switch to control the mix (on/off), use the mix switch. This leaves the gear switch available to use for gain.
Done, the Mix switch is now enabled and the gear switch is available for gain.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 11:40 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Done, the Mix switch is now enabled and the gear switch is available for gain.
OK. Now go into your programming for the gear channel. By default it should be giving you -100 to +100. Change that to -100 to zero. Now use the subtrim to offset that so it gives you -50 to +50. Now you have low gain =25%, high gain =75%.

You may need to adjust the polarity of these values to make it work, the servo monitor is a big help. And of course you will need to find the right gain values through experimentation. This should give you the concept though.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 11:50 PM
Rick
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Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
I presumed from the plane that you were using a Spectrum Rx they show with their LED if there were any lost frames (brown outs) during flight by blinking the LED for the number of loss of connections experienced. I don't know about other 2.4 systems out there.
I'm still confused. If you are talking about this incident, it's not my plane:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
I just test flew my PZ T-28 with my Guardian for the first time after everything checked out fine on the ground. Took off with 3 position mode switch in off & at about 2 mistakes high I switched on 2D; immediately I got very erratic behavior instead of stabilization; so I switched off & recovered level flight; then thinking because I reversed the Mode switch channel to put 2D on top, I switched to 3D & the A/C snapped into a spin! By the time I got the stab unit off, pulled the power & began recovering I was on the ground off the end of my grass runway in some heavy cut hay, resulting in some repairable damage to the nose area. But it was such a shock after everything I've read on this site & after everything seeming to be working as required in both modes while ground checking it - all servos & control surfaces moving right direction & only moderately. I have the pot gains at 50% with the master gain wire unplugged, so 40% default times my 50% set should be about 20% actual gain which seemed right for this A/C.

Is it possible that when switching between off to 2D to off to 3D to off that I may have inadvertently caused the unit to reset level flight & trim again over what I set on the ground? Also do you need to reset level flight & trim before each flight? I read the manual that this wasn't necessary, but I did this setting the day before I actually flew it. Anyway, most distressing & confusing as to what to do now. My confidence in the unit is not nearly as great as before, at least until I can figure out what went wrong. Needless to say the other fellows I was flying with weren't very impressed either.

Jed
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 01:01 AM
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SoCal
Joined Dec 2005
307 Posts
OK, it arrived today and was able to install on my 28" EPP foamy and get a test flight in before dark. The unit seems to deliver on all promises!
In 3D HH direct rate, it did seem "robotic". Any tuning suggestions?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 01:44 AM
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Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
Basically what it means is that it is always a good idea to install a separate BEC/UBEC when using a stabilizer.
ChooChoo & Galand - I hear & appreciate what both of you guys are saying about my Guardian problem on the T-28. And while I am pretty certain I had it set up per the manual (but stuff happens), I have also just ordered a 10 amp UBEC from Heads Up RC (good for up to 12 micro servos) that I will install in the Trojan before it flies with the Guardian connected again. And I will also make certain to double check everything on the ground before it flies with the stab unit turned on. Nothing like belts & suspenders, just in case! Cheers,

Jed
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:56 AM
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Iceland
Joined Jul 2004
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Yesterday I installed one of my two new stabilizers in my UltraStick 25e with flaps and separate ailerons that can be used as crow brakes. Everything worked fine except for brownouts. I am using the Ultimate BEC. The servos seem to use much current when starting to move. I have to take a look on this problem. (Aurora 9 Tx and 7ch Rx).

Then I installed the other stabilizer in an unmodified Bixler-1. There was considerable wind and without stabilization the model blew around like aš leaf. With 2D or 3D it was like on rails! No problems with brownout in this model. (Futaba 9c Tx and Hitec 5ch PPM Rx).

Remote 3-position mode switch, but no remote gain control in both cases.

Agust
Iceland
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 05:52 AM
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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Time to beat a dead horse

Quote:
Trimming for Level Flight: To clarify, any trimming you do should be done with *stabilization disabled.* Trimming with either 2D or 3D Mode enabled will actually be commanding a flight angle or rotational velocity respectively and will have different results when you turn off stabilization as well as possibly disabling Heading Hold and confusing Direct Rate Control.

If your model is not flying straight / level in 2D Mode but is trimmed properly when you are flying with stabilization disabled, you will need to land and re-run the Reset Level Flight and Trims command with the Mode Switch or through the PC App.

I believe the above weould work fine with a new unflown / untrimme3d new model if when you do the Reset Level Trim you in fact have the model at exactly the same level as it was in the first attempt.

My thinking and past experience based on my somewhat limited retriming experience with Guardian is that if the aircraft was flown and trimed prior to installing Guardian and initial Set Level was close enough that in 2D the aircraft did not do anything of a violent nature when enabled but likely aircraft pitched up or down slightly then merely trimming in flight with the Transmitter trims and doing a Reset Trims only after landing resulted in a properly trimed Guardian.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=855
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