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Old Aug 03, 2012, 04:57 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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If you check back you can find a post where that feacture once existed but it was found to not function all that well. GFuess I am hard headed but can not understand why it is so difficult to trim in flight land and disconnect battery,reconnect battery and reset trims only with two switch cycles in the fifteen seconds time frame.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 04:58 PM
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Long Island, NY
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Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
Even after the minor crash landing, the Guardian was still affixed to its Velcro bed right on top of the CG in the fuse, but the power thought may need looking into. I think the built in BEC in the 30amp ESC that PZ puts in the T-28 is a 3amp one but there are also 4 micro servos (non-digital I assume) so I thought this would be sufficient - - but maybe not which would explain why the ground check would be fine with a basically static A/C.

The manual reference to turning the Guardian "on", & yours as well, I have understood to mean when it first receives power from either the onboard RX battery, or in my case, from the 3S2200 Lipo through the ESC. Not when I flip my 3 position Mode switch from off to either 2D or 3D. Right?

Jed
Not many people know that servos flying under the control of a stabilizer continuously make many small moves and therefore draw much more current than when flown manually.
The 3A BEC on a 3S was maybe delivering only 1A and a bit. And the servo's drawing 500mA each, you are cooked!
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Oh boy, now I am really confused.
You don't have to Let me share my way of fine tuning the Level Flight in 2D.

1. Initially follow the manual when setting up the first time.
2. Go and fly the model with stabilization disabled.
3. With Stabilization Disabled, Trim to fly level at around 3/4 throttle (make sure you are 3 mistakes high).
4. Now fly even higher and turn stabilization ON to 2D, and be ready to turn OFF stabilization in case it is needed.
5. Make note of which way the model is going (ie: is it level; pitched up; or, pitched down?)
6. If the model flies level in 2D just like when stabilization is OFF then all that is needed is land and Reset Trims only (if the trims were adjusted during step-3 above.
7. If the model does not fly level in 2D and not like when the Stabilization is OFF then fine tuning the Level FLight is still needed. This is done on the bench and I do it as follow:

Say for example, the model needs a little bit of nose up for 2D level flight.
a) First, Reset Trims Only if trims in the Tx was adjusted in step-3 above.
b) Set the model on the bench with the roll level and adjust the pitch attitude a little at a time. Switch between OFF and 2D every time the nose is moved up/down. Find the position where you don't see any movement in the elevator when you switch between OFF and 2D. When there is no more elevator movement when you switch from OFF to 2D, then that is your initial Level FLight when you first flew in 2D.
c) Now keep the stabilization in 2D while lifting the nose of the model up until you notice the elevator to go down. In here you will need your judgement as to how much you will need. The more the elevator go down, the more nose up you have added.
d) Keep the model in that attitude (as how much nose up you want) then Reset Level Flight.

The same can be done if a nose down is needed for level flight, only the opposite.

I know, it is much trouble for the initial setup and that is why a few pages back in this thread some had suggested/requested to have the ability to fine tune 2D Level FLight while in the air and John T is asking if this can be useful and if there is enough demand for it. I say a big Yes, pls add this feature.

I am sure this can be done. We just need to push ET (John T) to add this feature in. It may not be used everyday but it is very important when setting a new install or moving it to another plane... or even after repairs.

Well, I hope the above is helpful.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 05:28 PM
who put that tree there
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Joined Jun 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesodell View Post
we need a way to reset trim in flight , like the heli command can do
+1 thats what would be very helpful n easier.
having to trim, land and reset is a pain..
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 05:47 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
You don't have to Let me share my way of fine tuning the Level Flight in 2D.

1. Initially follow the manual when setting up the first time.
2. Go and fly the model with stabilization disabled.
3. With Stabilization Disabled, Trim to fly level at around 3/4 throttle (make sure you are 3 mistakes high).
4. Now fly even higher and turn stabilization ON to 2D, and be ready to turn OFF stabilization in case it is needed.
5. Make note of which way the model is going (ie: is it level; pitched up; or, pitched down?)
6. If the model flies level in 2D just like when stabilization is OFF then all that is needed is land and Reset Trims only (if the trims were adjusted during step-3 above.
7. If the model does not fly level in 2D and not like when the Stabilization is OFF then fine tuning the Level FLight is still needed. This is done on the bench and I do it as follow:

Say for example, the model needs a little bit of nose up for 2D level flight.
a) First, Reset Trims Only if trims in the Tx was adjusted in step-3 above.
b) Set the model on the bench with the roll level and adjust the pitch attitude a little at a time. Switch between OFF and 2D every time the nose is moved up/down. Find the position where you don't see any movement in the elevator when you switch between OFF and 2D. When there is no more elevator movement when you switch from OFF to 2D, then that is your initial Level FLight when you first flew in 2D.
c) Now keep the stabilization in 2D while lifting the nose of the model up until you notice the elevator to go down. In here you will need your judgement as to how much you will need. The more the elevator go down, the more nose up you have added.
d) Keep the model in that attitude (as how much nose up you want) then Reset Level Flight.

The same can be done if a nose down is needed for level flight, only the opposite.

I know, it is much trouble for the initial setup and that is why a few pages back in this thread some had suggested/requested to have the ability to fine tune 2D Level FLight while in the air and John T is asking if this can be useful and if there is enough demand for it. I say a big Yes, pls add this feature.

I am sure this can be done. We just need to push ET (John T) to add this feature in. It may not be used everyday but it is very important when setting a new install or moving the plane... or even after repairs.

Well, I hope the above is helpful.
I appreciate your time. That said, I am now convinced that a Guardian really needs to be used with a TX that has a spare 3 position switch and, ideally, a radio with a proportional slider or knob. My two Guardians are mounted on planes that are bound to a DX6i. There is only a two position switch on the DX6i (2 pos Flap). I will move the 2nd delta plane to a old DX7 where I can use the three position flap switch. I really want to be able to turn it off in the air. The old DX7 has no slider or knob so Master Gain remote control is not an option.

Edit: The switchover to the DX7 is completed and I flew one time and took off in 2D mode. It flew OK. Then I went higher and turned the Guardian off and the plane pitched up like crazy. I added in a bunch of down trim but it was very sensitive to the sticks still. I switched to 2D but it now wanted to pitch down so I had to add up elevator. It was OK and still very forgiving. I floated it in, hauled my laptop outside and reset trims. Then I reset for level flight. I flew again it it flew great, but it was getting too dark to continue.

Thanks, more to follow.

Bill
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I appreciate your time. That said, I am now convinced that a Guardian really needs to be used with a TX that has a spare 3 position switch and, ideally, a radio with a proportional slider or knob. My two Guardians are mounted on planes that are bound to a DX6i. There is only a two position switch on the DX6i (2 pos Flap). I will move the 2nd delta plane to a old DX7 where I can use the three position flap switch. I really want to be able to turn it off in the air. The old DX7 has no slider or knob so Master Gain remote control is not an option.

Bill
With dx6i you can assign to gear switch/channel the MODE wire.... -100 pos 0 and +100 pos 1.......

Next, you must enable MIX 1: gear->gear U -100% D -100% SW mix

Now, you can use 2D/3D and OFF!
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 06:25 PM
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Great White North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Oh boy, now I am really confused.
Guys

I think you have to follow John T's explanation as he specifically addressed this issue in his post 1001

I adjust level in the manner detailed by Ricoalonso

Al
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 06:31 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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@galand

You don't need to convince me on this. If you think jedorme's crash was caused by brownout, perhaps you could explain to him how to verify and correct the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
I just test flew my PZ T-28 with my Guardian for the first time after everything checked out fine on the ground. Took off with 3 position mode switch in off & at about 2 mistakes high I switched on 2D; immediately I got very erratic behavior instead of stabilization; so I switched off & recovered level flight; then thinking because I reversed the Mode switch channel to put 2D on top, I switched to 3D & the A/C snapped into a spin! By the time I got the stab unit off, pulled the power & began recovering I was on the ground off the end of my grass runway in some heavy cut hay, resulting in some repairable damage to the nose area. But it was such a shock after everything I've read on this site & after everything seeming to be working as required in both modes while ground checking it - all servos & control surfaces moving right direction & only moderately. I have the pot gains at 50% with the master gain wire unplugged, so 40% default times my 50% set should be about 20% actual gain which seemed right for this A/C.

Is it possible that when switching between off to 2D to off to 3D to off that I may have inadvertently caused the unit to reset level flight & trim again over what I set on the ground? Also do you need to reset level flight & trim before each flight? I read the manual that this wasn't necessary, but I did this setting the day before I actually flew it. Anyway, most distressing & confusing as to what to do now. My confidence in the unit is not nearly as great as before, at least until I can figure out what went wrong. Needless to say the other fellows I was flying with weren't very impressed either.

Jed
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 06:42 PM
Rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I appreciate your time. That said, I am now convinced that a Guardian really needs to be used with a TX that has a spare 3 position switch and, ideally, a radio with a proportional slider or knob. My two Guardians are mounted on planes that are bound to a DX6i. There is only a two position switch on the DX6i (2 pos Flap). I will move the 2nd delta plane to a old DX7 where I can use the three position flap switch. I really want to be able to turn it off in the air. The old DX7 has no slider or knob so Master Gain remote control is not an option.

Bill
In addition to vs0587's good suggestions it is also possible to use a two position switch on the gain channel to yield a low/high selection in flight. So if you have two two-pos switches (gear+flaps) you can have 2D, 3D, off, gain low/high. Not as convenient as a 3-pos and knob but still functional.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
In addition to vs0587's good suggestions it is also possible to use a two position switch on the gain channel to yield a low/high selection in flight. So if you have two two-pos switches (gear+flaps) you can have 2D, 3D, off, gain low/high. Not as convenient as a 3-pos and knob but still functional.
Choochoo,

I just transferred my last delta with a Guardian to the DX7 which uses the 3 position flap switch. Pos 0 is 3D, Pos 1 is off and Pos 2 is 2D.

I will have to play with the DX6i and try to slave flap and gear switch together. I tried it before but it never worked.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:14 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I will have to play with the DX6i and try to slave flap and gear switch together. I tried it before but it never worked.
I'm not familiar with the 6i but you may be making it more difficult than necessary. Use the two-pos gear switch for mode. With vs0587's suggestion you can use the mix switch to provide an "off" mode. Separately, you can use the flap switch with a subtrim offset to provide a low/high gain.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I'm not familiar with the 6i but you may be making it more difficult than necessary. Use the two-pos gear switch for mode. With vs0587's suggestion you can use the mix switch to provide an "off" mode. Separately, you can use the flap switch with a subtrim offset, if it has that feature, to provide a low/high gain.
The two position flap switch is what I am using for 2D and 3D switching. My first plane with a Guardian flies fine that way, but turning it off and on would be nice. I already transferred the scratchbuilt delta to the DX7 and have 3D - OFF - 2D on the 3 position flap switch. I need to go play with DX6i again to see if I can get an off position. I tried before but it never worked.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vs0587 View Post
With dx6i you can assign to gear switch/channel the MODE wire.... -100 pos 0 and +100 pos 1.......

Next, you must enable MIX 1: gear->gear U -100% D -100% SW mix

Now, you can use 2D/3D and OFF!
I must have swallowed a large dumba$$ pill because I don't get how one, 2 position switch can accomplish 3 things (Off 2D 3D). Inquiring mind wants to know.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 09:32 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
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Prof, your brain is fine.

You can't get 3 functions from the 2 position gear switch to give you 2D and 3D. Gear gives you either -100% or +100%.

Then you create a mix that when OFF doesn't affect the gear switch, when ON it gives you always 0% = OFF

So yes, you do need two switches, GEAR -> 2D or 3D and MIX -> 2D/3D (as selected by the Gear switch) or OFF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I must have swallowed a large dumba$$ pill because I don't get how one, 2 position switch can accomplish 3 things (Off 2D 3D). Inquiring mind wants to know.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I must have swallowed a large dumba$$ pill because I don't get how one, 2 position switch can accomplish 3 things (Off 2D 3D). Inquiring mind wants to know.
Prof100,

They are suggesting you mix 2 switches. which will actually give you 4 possible positions. But in a simple form, your primary switch can move between 2d and 3D like it is now (lets assume you have this on the gear channel). Then you program a second switch using mixes that moves the gear channel to the middle range for OFF. So the output of the second switch and the mix changes the original gear channel

Al
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