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Old Jul 12, 2012, 02:24 PM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by ACMarshall View Post
Seems like you should be able to program a multipoint curve (like a throttle curve) to the switch channel to do that. No? -Alan
Quote:
Originally Posted by epoweredrc View Post
What radio are you using?
YOu could always change the numbers %'s around.
I have my flap switch on my old DX7 to 3d off 2d but if i were to change numbers around I could have it however i wanted
just put the -100 +100 and the 0 wherever you like at least on my DX7 you can...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
I am using a Futaba T8FG and I'm sure I can reprogram and reassign the function in each channel. I am currently using a 3-position switch and I can do a Reverse to it so that I can change 3D-OFF-2D to 2D-OFF-3D . And that is like getting the switch programmed from -100 0 +100 into +100 0 -100. What I cannot figure out yet is to program the switch into 0 +100 -100 . I may have to look into using a programmble mix (P-Mix) then using a curve as Alan mentioned above... or maybe there is a simpler way but I hasn't found it yet will keep looking.

What I was hoping is for Guardian to make it easier, simple and no Tx programming needed.. For example, with the other stabilization system I am currently using, during setup it will ask me to toggle the switch to all positions. For each position, it will ask me which condition I would like to assign to it. And by doing that, I can even just not use any of the modes that I may not need.

Thanks for sharing the idea
Rico.
Okay got it working by programming 3 p-mixes in my T8FG. Thank you for the suggestions.

Rico.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Framingham, MA
Joined Oct 2005
32 Posts
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
You should have a flap switch and a gear switch on a D6i so there are some possibilities. You could have the mode be 3D-off with gains low-high set on the other switch for example. You could have 2D-3D on one and gain zero-value on the other switch, which gives you an off option.
choochoo22,
Yeah, I suppose I could try that but to tell the truth it works so well that I don't even want to think about shutting it off alltogether. So for now I am going to work wtih it like it is with 3D/2D. It is fantastic!!!

I just finished running through all my batteries again in about a 5-10 kt breeze and it ROCKS! The most fun I have had since I started flying 3D about 5 years ago. Thanks for the suggestion 'tho. I may need it for my Radian Pro sailplane later.
-Alan
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 05:24 PM
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Joined Mar 2001
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Originally Posted by tourist_603 View Post
In a model without ailerons, can the Guardian be used by just plugging the rudder servo into the aileron slot? if so, does this result in any flight peculiarities? I'll probably just plug it in and try it out, but will welcome any comments that may shorten the learning curve, and maybe make it less painful.

Thanks.
That is how I set up my Easystar. No flight peculiarities, learning curve, or pain involved. It works great.

Tony
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 05:38 PM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
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United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,822 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
Okay got it working by programming 3 p-mixes in my T8FG. Thank you for the suggestions.

Rico.
Cool, thats great, i am working on putting it in my 42" AJ slick and I must say, It is a pain, For one i am trying to get it close to the CG as i can but there is no mount where tht is..... so i am having to build a stand for it to sit on. when i get it in there they will be no way to hook the USB up to it, but shouldn't be a issue if i go ahead and set it up for the plane its going in.

the yellow binking light that shows its in 3d/2d/off needs to be mounted on the outside of the unit that lil clear window you guys made for it stinks i cant hardly see it I guess being yellow does not help.

Waiting on my glue to dry for my stand where its going. once that is finished i will plug in a batt and program my controller for this model and center my ailerons, I installed new servos.
Maybe get a flight in tomorrow if its not raining, if it is i won't complain first good rain we have had this week after months
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 06:21 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,166 Posts
I just realized I have a problem I don't know how to solve. My Guardian is installed in an aerobatic foamie for testing, but the reason I got interested and ordered it in the first place was to use it to stabilize a 3 channel camera plane. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1241425 The camera plane isn't built yet and I'm using a Slow Stick as a test bed.

Anyway, my original vision was to mount the Guardian on a 1 axis gimbal (roll), using elev-normal, tx-ail to rud as you usually would on a 3 channel, and Guardian ail to the gimbal servo with no input or a dummy input if necessary. This would let the Guardian keep the plane at level pitch and steer with the rudder but the roll axis would keep the camera level. Or so I thought.

But the Guardian is much smarter than gyros and I recently came to realize it steers the plane like a pilot, by banking. If set up as above, Guardian would be trying to steer the plane by banking the camera! The opposite of what was envisioned.

I haven't been able to think of a setup that would let the Guardian manage keeping the camera level independent of minding the pitch and yaw. Some time back there was mention of plans for firmware to control a gimbal and also for a multicopter. At least one beta tester got one working very well in a multicopter somehow but I haven't seen anything in the manual or PC software for either of these applications. Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 06:41 PM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I just realized I have a problem I don't know how to solve. My Guardian is installed in an aerobatic foamie for testing, but the reason I got interested and ordered it in the first place was to use it to stabilize a 3 channel camera plane. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1241425 The camera plane isn't built yet and I'm using a Slow Stick as a test bed.

Anyway, my original vision was to mount the Guardian on a 1 axis gimbal (roll), using elev-normal, tx-ail to rud as you usually would on a 3 channel, and Guardian ail to the gimbal servo with no input or a dummy input if necessary. This would let the Guardian keep the plane at level pitch and steer with the rudder but the roll axis would keep the camera level. Or so I thought.

But the Guardian is much smarter than gyros and I recently came to realize it steers the plane like a pilot, by banking. If set up as above, Guardian would be trying to steer the plane by banking the camera! The opposite of what was envisioned.

I haven't been able to think of a setup that would let the Guardian manage keeping the camera level independent of minding the pitch and yaw. Some time back there was mention of plans for firmware to control a gimbal and also for a multicopter. At least one beta tester got one working very well in a multicopter somehow but I haven't seen anything in the manual or PC software for either of these applications. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Well, how about if you use a Y-connector for your Guardian Aileron output , pretendind you have a 2-Ail servo. But, one of the Y goes to your Rudder while one goes to your camera gimbal. One servo moves the opposite of the other. So, when you turn left, the camera banks to the right.

Connection will look like: Rx Ail->Guardian Ail In->Guardian Ail Out-> Y-> Rudder and camera gimbal.

Do you think that will be possible?

Edit: Or, you might need 2 Guardians. One for the plane and one for the gimbal.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 08:23 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
Well, how about if you use a Y-connector for your Guardian Aileron output , pretendind you have a 2-Ail servo. But, one of the Y goes to your Rudder while one goes to your camera gimbal. One servo moves the opposite of the other. So, when you turn left, the camera banks to the right.

Connection will look like: Rx Ail->Guardian Ail In->Guardian Ail Out-> Y-> Rudder and camera gimbal.

Do you think that will be possible?

Edit: Or, you might need 2 Guardians. One for the plane and one for the gimbal.
Thanks for your suggestions. Kicking this around in my head this afternoon I think I found a much simpler solution.

I did just two things; turn the HH gain in 2D to zero, and swap the rud-ail connections to the rx. I tried this out with the Guardian still in the foamie and it seems to work fine. The ail stick works the rud just like any 3ch setup. The ail output from the Guardian keeps the ailerons on the foamie level, this will be the gimbal roll channel in a camera plane. The rud stick tilts the ail (camera). This last isn't necessarily desirable but it can be disabled two ways; turn the rud travel to zero on the tx, or pull the ail signal wire from the rx to the Guardian (yes the Guardian still holds the channel level on its own with no input signal but it still needs the power wires).

The only downside I see so far is that I lose the Guardian's help in flying a straight line. It seems if I want everything, it does take two Guardians.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 09:13 PM
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Santa Clara, CA
Joined Nov 2008
1,017 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I just realized I have a problem I don't know how to solve. My Guardian is installed in an aerobatic foamie for testing, but the reason I got interested and ordered it in the first place was to use it to stabilize a 3 channel camera plane. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1241425 The camera plane isn't built yet and I'm using a Slow Stick as a test bed.

Anyway, my original vision was to mount the Guardian on a 1 axis gimbal (roll), using elev-normal, tx-ail to rud as you usually would on a 3 channel, and Guardian ail to the gimbal servo with no input or a dummy input if necessary. This would let the Guardian keep the plane at level pitch and steer with the rudder but the roll axis would keep the camera level. Or so I thought.

But the Guardian is much smarter than gyros and I recently came to realize it steers the plane like a pilot, by banking. If set up as above, Guardian would be trying to steer the plane by banking the camera! The opposite of what was envisioned.

I haven't been able to think of a setup that would let the Guardian manage keeping the camera level independent of minding the pitch and yaw. Some time back there was mention of plans for firmware to control a gimbal and also for a multicopter. At least one beta tester got one working very well in a multicopter somehow but I haven't seen anything in the manual or PC software for either of these applications. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Well, if the goal is to keep the camera platform level, which is what the guardian does when the sticks are at neutral, then what you need is for the guardian to be driving the platform servos based on roll/yaw/pitch inputs that are at neutral. Here's what I would do:

If you want NO independent control of the platform, use Y adapters on a channel of your RX that is unused (so its getting a constant neutral pulse from the RX) to supply the guardian with Ail/Rud/Ele inputs.

If you want control on one or more axes of the camera platform, provide inputs to the guardian from channels that you have on sliders from your TX, but not from the airplanes Ail/Ele/Rud channels, the axes you don't need independent control of can go to a neutral channel as above.

With that, the guardian is managing your camera platform while the plane does what it does to tilt, etc. put the guardian in 2D mode for all of this I would think.

Peter+
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 10:33 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by pvogel View Post
Well, if the goal is to keep the camera platform level, which is what the guardian does when the sticks are at neutral, then what you need is for the guardian to be driving the platform servos based on roll/yaw/pitch inputs that are at neutral. Here's what I would do:

If you want NO independent control of the platform, use Y adapters on a channel of your RX that is unused (so its getting a constant neutral pulse from the RX) to supply the guardian with Ail/Rud/Ele inputs.

If you want control on one or more axes of the camera platform, provide inputs to the guardian from channels that you have on sliders from your TX, but not from the airplanes Ail/Ele/Rud channels, the axes you don't need independent control of can go to a neutral channel as above.

With that, the guardian is managing your camera platform while the plane does what it does to tilt, etc. put the guardian in 2D mode for all of this I would think.

Peter+
Thanks for the suggestions. The part that made this tricky is that I want the Guardian to stabilize the roll axis on the gimbal and the other two axes on the plane.

To stabilize the gimbal only, it turns out the Guardian doesn't need a neutral signal (I also thought it might). At least not on the aileron channel I tested, it's possible it might need a signal on some input channel. It appears for a gimbal-only installation you can just mount a Guardian on the gimbal, hook up whatever channels you need to the gimbal servos only, set 2D mode, set level, and work out the pot gains. All it needs from the receiver in this application is power, unless you want tx control of the gimbal, which I don't currently.

An interesting firmware addition would be to let the guardian stabilize all three axes on the plane as designed and use the aux channel to level a single gimbal in the axis of your choice. This would allow full functionality in a 4 ch plane while adding the ability to further stabilize and level a camera.
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 05:03 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,834 Posts
Quote:
the yellow binking light that shows its in 3d/2d/off needs to be mounted on the outside of the unit that lil clear window you guys made for it stinks i cant hardly see it I guess being yellow does not help.
So the old saying "like father ,like son"is true.

One of the very first complaint I had and mentioned to John was that LED was next to impossible to see and that it really needed to be on a set of leads not soldered to the PCB. It is going tp be completly useless to all of those who have Guardian buried in an aircraft that the LiPoly do not install by removing a large canopy which just happens to be over the receiver.Guardian, battery tray and CG.

Hint: I made my LED very easy to see by trimming away the covering (sleeve) big time and exposing theLED.

FYI THe Yellow LED is most likely in factthe best choice for most users. I have experimented with numerious colors of LED in direct sunligh and it was the overall winner.


Added: Just watched John's install video and did anyone notice the Guard. mounted next to receiver which looks to be at aprox. 2/3 ( 66%) of wing's cord? That is a fair amount behind the CG unless that is an extremly strange airplane CG wise.

On a side note I wish that everyone doing such setup vides would set a better example by first removing the prop(s) on electrics or by disconnecting the motor or by using a seperate battery for the receiver. In the video you clearly hear the ESC arm.


Charles
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 05:45 AM
Registered User
Ipoh, Perak Malaysia
Joined Jul 2006
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choochoo,

If you want the Guardian to stabilize the camera platform, shouldn't you be installing that on the camera platform itself? I mean you would need one inside the plane to stabilize the plane and a 2nd one on the camera platform to stabilize the platform.

chewy
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 07:10 AM
Your customer
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by epoweredrc View Post
Cool, thats great, i am working on putting it in my 42" AJ slick and I must say, It is a pain, For one i am trying to get it close to the CG as i can but there is no mount where tht is..... so i am having to build a stand for it to sit on. when i get it in there they will be no way to hook the USB up to it, but shouldn't be a issue if i go ahead and set it up for the plane its going in.

the yellow binking light that shows its in 3d/2d/off needs to be mounted on the outside of the unit that lil clear window you guys made for it stinks i cant hardly see it I guess being yellow does not help.

Waiting on my glue to dry for my stand where its going. once that is finished i will plug in a batt and program my controller for this model and center my ailerons, I installed new servos.
Maybe get a flight in tomorrow if its not raining, if it is i won't complain first good rain we have had this week after months
Try a strip of fibre optic to route the led light to where you can see it.

http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/

there was a lamp available at on time that had a head of fibre optic strands on it being sold at dollar stores. You may still find it. Stuff
works great.
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 08:22 AM
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Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
8,439 Posts
I have updated my gyro page with the Guardian at the top of the list and places where I have seen it listed for sale (yet some may be out of stock still). If you know of an additional website that lists them for sale or pre-sale, let me know.
Thx

http://www.mycoolrc.com/gyro/gyroLINKS.html
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 08:28 AM
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Canada, NS, Halifax
Joined Feb 2010
7,257 Posts
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Originally Posted by Melnic View Post
I have updated my gyro page with the Guardian at the top of the list and places where I have seen it listed for sale (yet some may be out of stock still). If you know of an additional website that lists them for sale or pre-sale, let me know.
Thx

http://www.mycoolrc.com/gyro/gyroLINKS.html
I'll be carrying it here in Canada but wont have stock until the second batch in August. Will be adding it to the website soon. www.flitelab.com
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 01:59 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewytm View Post
choochoo,

If you want the Guardian to stabilize the camera platform, shouldn't you be installing that on the camera platform itself? I mean you would need one inside the plane to stabilize the plane and a 2nd one on the camera platform to stabilize the platform.

chewy
Yes and no.
In this setup the Guardian does need to be on the camera platform "...my original vision was to mount the Guardian on a 1 axis gimbal (roll), using...", but since the gimbal only moves on the roll axis it sees the same pitch and yaw as the plane. Or so goes my theory.
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