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Old Jul 11, 2012, 12:38 PM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
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Still it is better that the model is properly setup and have someone with experience to test on the aircraft before having the Guardian activated to confirm that everything is mechanically fit, CG is correct, control surface deflections are enough and not excessive, etc.. Of course, if one has already setup/flown a plane before and only need the Guardian for bailout or help in windy conditions... then all of the above may no longer be needed.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 01:27 PM
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Chicago
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333 Posts
Ok, still having problems setting up the Guardial on my DX7.

As per Charles I have the wing type on the DX7 to flaperon off,(I'm using 2 aileron servos). As per Scott216 posting, I have mix1 to disable the gear switch and mix2 to map the gear switch to the flap (3-position switch).

This works as it disables the gear switch and the Guardian works on the flap switch as 2D/off/3D.

The problem is that the 3 position switch still operates as flaps. the center position is off and the ailerons work properly. In the up and down position the flap function is still active and the ailerons work as flaps. I have checked and unchecked the "Flaperon Input is Unmixed" several times and it doesn't seem to make any difference in the operation.

I'm pretty sure I just have something configured wrong but I can't seem to figure out what it is.

Thanks

Mike
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 01:29 PM
Guardian Stabilizer
Joined Feb 2012
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pvogel: From what I understand from my flying, entering a knife edge maneuver pretty dramatically changes your center of pressure on non profile models (ie anything but flat-wing foamies, correct me if I'm wrong). When this happens, you effectively have a model that is very out of trim. To counteract this, you will need to increase your Rudder gain relative to the other control surfaces. To do this, turn your Gain knob up while reducing the Pitch and Roll control gains and leaving the Yaw gain at maximum. Tune the Gain knob in flight to eliminate any oscillations and try your maneuver again. Another trick is that you can actuate your rudder channel without resetting the Ail / Elev 3D Heading Lock, so you can use that to set your KE Pitch. In addition, testers have noted that they sometimes needed to really punch the throttle to get enough authority. Finally, pushing your CG back as much as you can (while maintaining a stable airframe) will improve your KE performance as well.

choochoo22: Thanks for the feedback. Flutter Suppression could be renamed to Oscillation Suppression; we'll check to see if there are any issues with doing so. With regards to the Hot Glue, we suggest in the Manual to gently pull up on the Guardian before flight to ensure that it is firmly attached to your airframe. In my experience, Hot Glue works pretty well with small force adhesion. My personal favorite is Servo Tape. When applied properly, that stuff never comes off. Unfortunately, not everybody has it.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 01:39 PM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,820 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patron View Post
Ok, still having problems setting up the Guardial on my DX7.

As per Charles I have the wing type on the DX7 to flaperon off,(I'm using 2 aileron servos). As per Scott216 posting, I have mix1 to disable the gear switch and mix2 to map the gear switch to the flap (3-position switch).

This works as it disables the gear switch and the Guardian works on the flap switch as 2D/off/3D.

The problem is that the 3 position switch still operates as flaps. the center position is off and the ailerons work properly. In the up and down position the flap function is still active and the ailerons work as flaps. I have checked and unchecked the "Flaperon Input is Unmixed" several times and it doesn't seem to make any difference in the operation.

I'm pretty sure I just have something configured wrong but I can't seem to figure out what it is.

Thanks

Mike
So your wanting to use the 3 way flap mode switch for your 3d/off/2d?
If so why not just use the set up I posted?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=820
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 01:48 PM
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Chicago
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333 Posts
epoweredrc,

I did, I watched your video and did everything exactly as you described, it didn't work. I can't remember exactly right now but the flap switch didn't power the Guardian and the ailerons were still acting as flaps when you toggled the switch.

I then tried Scott216's approach with two mixes and that worked for powering the Guardian from the flap switch but the ailerons were still acting as flaps.

Mike
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 03:18 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John.T View Post
My personal favorite is Servo Tape. When applied properly, that stuff never comes off. Unfortunately, not everybody has it.
Something that can be found at most hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) is 3M mounting tape. Most people know the type with the green plaid backing which isn't too reliable. There is a type labeled "outdoor" with a red backing and grey tape that is worlds apart much more tenacious and should be more universally available the servo tape.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 04:08 PM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
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Be sure you mod channel from unit plugs into ur aux1 on rx if it plugs into gear port it wont work with ur 3 way switch check box on program and fixed wing
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 05:38 PM
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Chicago
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Originally Posted by epoweredrc View Post
Be sure you mod channel from unit plugs into ur aux1 on rx if it plugs into gear port it wont work with ur 3 way switch check box on program and fixed wing
Chris,

Thank you so much for your help......I finally got it!!!!!

I was plugging in the Aux wire from the unit into the Aux1 port on the Rx and the Mod wire into the Gear port. Now it makes sense how the Guardian is doing the aileron mixing.

Again, thanks Chris
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 06:11 PM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Patron View Post
Chris,

Thank you so much for your help......I finally got it!!!!!

I was plugging in the Aux wire from the unit into the Aux1 port on the Rx and the Mod wire into the Gear port. Now it makes sense how the Guardian is doing the aileron mixing.

Again, thanks Chris
Your welcome Im glad i could help this has been a learning week for me to just converted my flybar 450 to fbl waiting on servo gears to put gaurdian in my aj slick maybe tomorrow
That aux would plug into the rx aux if u didnt have the dual aileron in the unit im glad theg added that feature cause on dx7 we dont have lots of switch options

happy flying
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 07:50 PM
LSF 004 - AMA 5055
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United States, CA, Saratoga
Joined Dec 2000
592 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.T View Post
Hi guys! Long time watcher, first time writing. Iím John, the lead engineer on the Guardian and I wanted to thank you all for your help and thoughtfulness on this thread! As more people get the Guardian, Iíll be doing my best to try and follow and learn from this conversation as well as add what I can.

First, some of you might have seen this on the Guardian 2D/3D Stabilizerís webpage, but I wanted to share this quickstart video here as well. It explains how to set up the Guardian on a standard fixed wing model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt8Y3Lxnv-0&hd=1

Regarding placement of the Guardian relative to CG, we recommend that you get as close as you can to the CG to ensure the best self-leveling performance. In addition, the 2D Modeís Auto Turn Coordination feature is more sensitive to placement within the model. If you use this option, you will want to keep the Guardian as close to the CG as possible for best performance.

choochoo22: You described the Aileron response as creating an offset after tumbling your model through the air in 2D Mode. To add on RicoAlonsoís comment, this is the 2D Heading Hold feature working to roll your plane towards its currently locked heading. Simply tap your Aileron control channel to reset your current 2D Heading and the Ailerons should reset to level. While this is great for allowing hands-free straight flight, you can disable this option through the control stick menu or the PC App.
John,

Thank you for the informative video. Quick question, do you have to do the leveling and switch flipping every time you turn it on to fly?

Thanks,
Bob
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 09:08 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2012
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I set up the guardian last night in the "Mr. Mulligan." It looked as if there was very little
servo movement. I went out this morning and couldn't believe how much easier it was
to fly. Thank you for your response.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 11:42 PM
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Joined Mar 2001
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I tested the Guardian's capabilities somewhat tonight. I was flying the Easystar with extended wings, with a still camera mounted on the front. This was a lighter camera than my usual, so my plane was somewhat tail heavy. There was also a pretty good wind blowing. The wind eventually died down at the surface, but was still pretty stiff several hundred feet up. I just trimmed the plane to eliminate the dipsy-doo from the tail heavy condition, and let Guardian take over. Heading into the wind, with just a few ticks of power, the plane flew at a virtual hover - well below walking speed, with just a slight forward motion. Guardian kept the wings perfectly level, for as long as I wanted the plane to fly like that. Not bad.

Tony
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 12:00 AM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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I think it would be helpful for new Guardian flyers to have a plan on how to establish good settings for the on-board pots. Here is my take on it, I'm sure those with more experience will comment.

If you have a knob or slider for master gain and are trying to tune the pots for your aircraft, here is a methodology that should work pretty universally:
  1. Setup your pots for max gain in the proper direction.
  2. Set your tx for 3D HH and the master gain to zero.
  3. Fly at "normal" speed, that you use most commonly with this plane.
  4. Always using small steps, increase the master gain until you can "feel" the Guardian start to have an effect.
  5. Increase the master gain slightly.
  6. Use a burst of full throttle and watch carefully for oscillation and be ready to back off.
  7. Note the axis on which the oscillation was observed and back off the throttle and back down the master gain slightly. If no oscillation, go back to step 5.
  8. Land without further change in the master gain.
  9. Note the position of the master gain, eg. 40% of knob rotation, back down the oscillating channel to this same value.
  10. Fly again and go back to step 5, repeat until there is no oscillation with the master gain at max.
At this point you can use the full range of your knob to tune the gain in flight knowing you won't encounter oscillation at any setting even if you accidentally bump the knob or takeoff without pre-setting it properly. With the knob at max you will get all the gain your plane can use. You could still encounter oscillation in a high speed dive and need to back down the master gain in such situations. If you want to confirm that you are getting all the gain you can use, increase each pot slightly and test for oscillation again.

One modification; If you fly with a wide speed envelope, you may want to follow the procedure for oscillation at low speed in step 6 instead of full throttle. This will yield higher gain values on the pots that may be more useful flying at low speeds, hovering, etc. but will require you to be vigilant and back the master gain down when flying at higher speeds to avoid oscillation.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 01:29 AM
Never fly an A model anything!
jayb1rdz's Avatar
Antarctica
Joined Apr 2008
4,983 Posts
I git my Guardian (s) today and already had a play. I might be missing some brain cells as I cant get the Guardian to talk to my PC. I plug it in via the Micro USB, It notes the connection but doesn't show anything when I go to "my Computer".

Is the Guardian supposed to be "powered" when it is plugged in and how to I access the PC mode to program it??

Any guidance appreciated.

J
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 01:44 AM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayb1rdz View Post
I git my Guardian (s) today and already had a play. I might be missing some brain cells as I cant get the Guardian to talk to my PC. I plug it in via the Micro USB, It notes the connection but doesn't show anything when I go to "my Computer".

Is the Guardian supposed to be "powered" when it is plugged in and how to I access the PC mode to program it??

Any guidance appreciated.

J
Did you install the software? V 10.43 from here: http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Support/apps.htm
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