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Old Jul 08, 2012, 01:25 AM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,884 Posts
"I have a DX8 I will be learning how to make the flap switch on it come on right now its inh. and can't make it cut on just got it so still playing around with it."
I think I had to switch on flaperons to activate the flap switch. However you could move all your triple rates to 1 switch and use one of the remaining triple rate switches for the ET
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 01:43 AM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,038 Posts
I just got my Guardian today and set it up in a straight 4 channel plane, nothing fancy. I used a P-mix on my DX8 to mix the knob on ch 8 to the gear channel so it works with a 6 ch rx.

"Hanger flying" in my Garage, I noticed a behavior I don't understand. If 2D is activated somewhere near level, the control surfaces move to level the plane and keep it there. Good. However, if 2D is activated in an unusual attitude, it brings the plane pitch level with about 25 degree bank. Huh??? The same problem happens if 2D is already active and level and the plane is forced to tumble through some unusual attitudes. This latter probably wouldn't happen in flight but it should still be trying to level the plane.

Any ideas?
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 02:56 AM
Registered User
Honolulu
Joined Jul 2003
109 Posts
MB339 Turbine with Guardian 3D hh

Hello Everyone

Ok some new video from the 4th of July
Got the Guardian installed in my MB339, it's a very stable bird however I wanted to see what the 3D heading hold would be like in a fast heavy aircraft.
The MB339 is a Skymaster model, and weighs about 43 Lbs dry, 52 at takeoff.
28 Lbs of thrust out of the PST 1300R turbine.

The video contains these different modes from 2 flights that day, sorry about the wind noise it was pretty windy on the 4th.
1. 3D rate mode
2. 2D flight
3. 2D landing
4. 2D hands off recovery from unusual attitudes
5. 3D HH w/direct rate flight
6. 3D HH w/direct rate landing
7. 2D slow flight
8. 3D slow flight & high AOA to pre stall.

MB339 r/c Turbine with Guardian by Eagle Tree 2D 3D stabilizer (8 min 5 sec)
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 06:33 AM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,816 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott216 View Post
I'm trying to setup my plane with a the guardian. I'm putting it in my Apprentice so it can be used as a trainer for my kids. I'm using a spektrum DX7 radio and a 5 channel Rx. I have two aileron servos and I don't use a Y-harness; I was plugging both servos into my receiver, now both go into the guardian. I noticed that now with the guadian the ailerons don't travel the same amount, the right one travels much more then the left. Is this normal?

Also, I'd like to map my 3 position flap switch to the gear channel on my Rx, anyone know how to do that?
Yeah get a y leave flaparons off on tx and use ur flap settings as i posted you will need to mix mix4 on tx also tomake it work charging batts about to head to field hope to get some video today

Thanks for the info yeah might be able to use one the triple rates switches on my dx8
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 07:37 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,424 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero65 View Post
Hello Everyone

Ok some new video from the 4th of July
Got the Guardian installed in my MB339, it's a very stable bird however I wanted to see what the 3D heading hold would be like in a fast heavy aircraft.
The MB339 is a Skymaster model, and weighs about 43 Lbs dry, 52 at takeoff.
28 Lbs of thrust out of the PST 1300R turbine.

The video contains these different modes from 2 flights that day, sorry about the wind noise it was pretty windy on the 4th.
1. 3D rate mode
2. 2D flight
3. 2D landing
4. 2D hands off recovery from unusual attitudes
5. 3D HH w/direct rate flight
6. 3D HH w/direct rate landing
7. 2D slow flight
8. 3D slow flight & high AOA to pre stall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krdE...E&feature=plcp
Now that is what I call a demo video. Well done!
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 09:45 AM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Mountain Lakes
Joined Apr 2010
122 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvogel View Post
As for the DX7 switch programming, is this an original DX7 or one of the new ones? As I recall from the original DX7 switch assignment functions are quite limited.
Peter+
I figured it out. I used one mix to disable the gear switch and another to map the flap switch to the gear channel. See this post.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...45&postcount=3
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:02 AM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
1,474 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I just got my Guardian today and set it up in a straight 4 channel plane, nothing fancy. I used a P-mix on my DX8 to mix the knob on ch 8 to the gear channel so it works with a 6 ch rx.

"Hanger flying" in my Garage, I noticed a behavior I don't understand. If 2D is activated somewhere near level, the control surfaces move to level the plane and keep it there. Good. However, if 2D is activated in an unusual attitude, it brings the plane pitch level with about 25 degree bank. Huh??? The same problem happens if 2D is already active and level and the plane is forced to tumble through some unusual attitudes. This latter probably wouldn't happen in flight but it should still be trying to level the plane.

Any ideas?
From my observation in 2D, the Guardian will also compensate for a 'slide' to the sides. For example, even if the plane is level but the model slides from left to right, it will try compensate in terms of roll to the opposite direction. So, maybe this is the 25 deg bank which you have observed.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:06 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2001
2,624 Posts
Here is my first flight video, from the onboard Sony Bloggie. Nothing to write home about, but you can see once I got it trimmed out it was reasonably smooth. I did notice some nose bobbing in flight last night, which is evident in the video. I attribute that to the size difference between the FY20A and the Guardian; the FY and its mounting platform are considerably larger and heavier than the Guardian.

Tony

Guardian 2D Test (3 min 27 sec)
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:48 AM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Mountain Lakes
Joined Apr 2010
122 Posts
I've got the Guardian in my Apprentice with a Y-harness for the aileron servos. Mod connector is hooked up to my the gear channel on my Rx. Aux and Gain connectors on the Guardian are not connected. All three gain adjustment dials are factory default - which on mine is all the way counterclockwise (ie. reverse servo direction).
On my DX7, the flap switch is mapped to the gear channel and this seems to be working properly.

My questions are: Should I leave the gain adjustments all the way CCW? The manual refers to the CW direction as the "normal" direction, so it just seems counter intuitive that the default would be the CCW (reverse direction). I don't really have a good understanding of how these gains work. If a gust of wind causes the plane to dive, I would apply up elevator to compensate. If the guardian was doing the correction and the pitch gain adjustment was set reverse (CCW), would the guardian give the plane down elevator to compensate.

Also, when I move the plane around by hand, the ailerons move because they are trying to compensate, but the rudder and elevator servos don't do anything. This is the case for both 2D and 3D modes.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 11:24 AM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,816 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott216 View Post
I figured it out. I used one mix to disable the gear switch and another to map the flap switch to the gear channel. See this post.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...45&postcount=3
That is different way of doing it. here is my set up video shows the plane and the unit installed and then i show you the menu's on the DX7 how I have it set up
Set up vido gaurdian 2d3d (3 min 12 sec)


I flew solo today so i didn't get the best video I'm looking at them now might upload a flying one in a bit.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 02:39 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Mountain Lakes
Joined Apr 2010
122 Posts
I noticed that when the Guardian is turned on, the ailerons travel a lot farther then when it's off. Is there anyway to adjust? I suppose I could try do some sort of mix so when the flap switch is up or down (Guardian is in 2D or 3D mode), I'm applying dual rate of 70% or so. But this seems like a pain. Is there anything in the Guardian setup I can do?
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Canada, NS, Halifax
Joined Feb 2010
7,036 Posts
I had the travel question as well but just left it as is per the recommendation of ET. There is more travel so the Guardian has more to work with to try and level things out if needed, it bascially uses the full servo range. I've not noticed any issues to date with the larger travel when Guardian is on vs off.

The only issue is if your servos are physically binding with full travel. Here is what ET told me:

"Ah, this is an interesting problem, because the intuitive solution of limiting the throws on the controller isn’t an option. The best way to limit your throws with the Guardian is through the PC App. Under the Servo Config tab, there is an option “Output Servo Ranges Custom” that allows you to specify your max servo throws for each output in microseconds. "

"the custom servo deflection ranges specify the Min and Max values that the servos can be moved to. What I would recommend is connecting your model up to the PC with the servo power on and your Tx’s mode switch set to Disabled. Move the servos around until you get to the binding point. If the servos won’t bind in Disabled mode, then switch to 3D mode with a moderate gain and try again. Once you get to the point where you are binding, just look at the name of the output channel on the Guardian and reduce the ranges in the App until the servos are limited before the bind point."


Hope this helps others with same question.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:12 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,884 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott216 View Post
I noticed that when the Guardian is turned on, the ailerons travel a lot farther then when it's off. Is there anyway to adjust? I suppose I could try do some sort of mix so when the flap switch is up or down (Guardian is in 2D or 3D mode), I'm applying dual rate of 70% or so. But this seems like a pain. Is there anything in the Guardian setup I can do?
The Guardian's acts after the receiver and is not affected by any rate or travel adjustments you have made on the transmitter, hence the difference. If you are concerned about overcontrol, you could limit the travel mechanically by choice of holes on servo arm & control horn OR use the Guardian software.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:18 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,735 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott216 View Post
I've got the Guardian in my Apprentice with a Y-harness for the aileron servos. Mod connector is hooked up to my the gear channel on my Rx. Aux and Gain connectors on the Guardian are not connected. All three gain adjustment dials are factory default - which on mine is all the way counterclockwise (ie. reverse servo direction).
On my DX7, the flap switch is mapped to the gear channel and this seems to be working properly.

My questions are: Should I leave the gain adjustments all the way CCW? The manual refers to the CW direction as the "normal" direction, so it just seems counter intuitive that the default would be the CCW (reverse direction). I don't really have a good understanding of how these gains work. If a gust of wind causes the plane to dive, I would apply up elevator to compensate. If the guardian was doing the correction and the pitch gain adjustment was set reverse (CCW), would the guardian give the plane down elevator to compensate.

Also, when I move the plane around by hand, the ailerons move because they are trying to compensate, but the rudder and elevator servos don't do anything. This is the case for both 2D and 3D modes.
You do not leave Pots set at default which just might be even the wrong direction. Mid postion iis same as off, you ture them CW and the servos move one direction,CCW they move the opposite direction. I suggest starting at aprox. the 2 O clock (CW ) or 10 O clock (CCW ) depending on which way the servos need to move to correct aircraft attitude.

While you can use a Y harness you can also turn on Onboard Dual Aileron Mixing Page 11 Item 9.

This is a feacture ET added at my request and it works well and requred no Y harness required. Just be sure to turn off any Flaperon / Duel Aileron mix in the Transmitter.

Gaurdian Pots (adjustments) are set so that when imn 2D mode and you hold aircraft level the elevator is level,if you lower the nose the Guardian should apply up elevator, if it applies down elevator you need to turn the Pot(adjustment) to the other side of netural ( 12 O clock).

3D is perhaps a bit harder to grasp. With Guardian turned off hold nose of aircraft straight up and then switch 3D on, now the elevator stays netural but if you lower the nose the Guardian gives up elevator, if you roll aircraft to right it gives left alileron to correct, if you tilt nose to right it gives left rudder to correct.

Using the Gear Sw. for Mod. means you have only 2D and 3D and no off or only Off and either 2D or 3D but not both. IMO using the Flap Sw. so you have all three Modes is a much better choice.

Off is nice for when you have battery /receiver powered up and are carrying the airfcaft and would be many handy if for some reason the Guardian became unmounted or stopped working however unlikely that is. Also nice tobe able to turn it off in flight to get a better idea of just how well it is working / helping. I know with Guardian on I can do perfect knife edge passes back and forth using rudder only ,turn it off and I can not maintain my heading nearly as well. Same with hovers, Guardian they are perfect without the look pertty bad.

When Guardian and hovering I like to reduce throttle and watch it try to hold the hover but the nose keeps dropping but as soon as a little more power is given it pops right back into a perfect hover.


FYI I have let Guardian hold my Lil Banchee in a hover in 12 MPH gusty winds at all angle, bottom to me. top to me, left wing to me ,right wing to me it will hold these positions for more than 2 minutes at which time I have to fly backup wind to keep from drifting to far down wind.

Not a great video but

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=301
Charles
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Last edited by everydayflyer; Jul 08, 2012 at 03:47 PM.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:48 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott216 View Post
I figured it out. I used one mix to disable the gear switch and another to map the flap switch to the gear channel. See this post.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...45&postcount=3
Thank you for sharing that solution!!

I had just come up with my own solution to use the knob on my DX8 to control the gain on a 6 ch rx by mixing to the gear channel. I thought it was pretty creative and was going to post it. Problem is, the gear switch was still active and acting as an on-off. The "on" position allowed the knob to control gain full-range as desired. The "off" position set an unnecessary zero gain value but I didn't know how to take the switch out of operation without disabling the channel completely. I never thought of mixing the switch back to itself to negate it. Brilliant!!! With your solution the knob controls master gain full-range and the gear switch does nothing. Perfect!
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