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Old Feb 29, 2012, 02:00 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
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United States, VA, McLean
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Originally Posted by TP715 View Post
Will I have to replace the cheap 9g servos in my foam planes with faster and/or more robust versions to handle the constant gyro inputs? If yes, then how do I choose?
No. You will probably strip them in a crash, long before you wear them out.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 02:49 AM
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This is starting to sound enticing. I've got a short coupled balsa Fokker Dr1 that I've been wanting to fly with some sort of electronic stabilization. The electronics will be buried in front of the cockpit, so remote adjustments are a must.

Will there be an option for satellite rx or sbus also?
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 09:42 AM
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They DID state an immediate charge to your card on the order page.

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Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
FWIW, I just pre-ordered the 2D/3D Stabilzation System from ET & found out afterwards that they immediately charged my credit card for the entire price plus shipping at the time of the order, instead of when the product is shipped, even though the latter is what most really reputable online sellers do. I understand that this is not illegal but also that it is in violation of Visa & Mastercard policies. I think it is fine to either take a lesser non-refundable deposit amount, or tell the customer that there will be a hold on their card for this amount until shipment, but to take money this far in advance of an actual sale seems like overreaching to me. I didn't cancel my order (the option they offered) but will probably in the future look to buy any more of these units from some vendor that only collects my money when they sell it to me. As they say, "Caveat Emptor".

Jed
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TP715
Will I have to replace the cheap 9g servos in my foam planes with faster and/or more robust versions to handle the constant gyro inputs? If yes, then how do I choose?
That is a point to be considered. Another flight stabilization (3 Axis) device does require servo upgrading as the older servos will not last long at all. Many who fly helis learned that the tail servo needed to be a higher quality one since the gyro was providing constant inputs to it.

My experience has been that there are some very good and some very poor quality servos and that merely looking at a brand or size or such is often not a great indication of their quality.

I do not install any new servo in an aircraft without first using a servo tester / cycler to burn it it for a couple of hours mininum and ckeck travel,centering accuracy ,etc.

Charles
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 11:39 AM
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I have lots of experiance with gyros on planes, So far I have yet to have a servo fail that was controlled by a gyro. HOWEVER, I guarantee you that the gyro makes the servo work harder. How much harder? Depends on how much you crank the gain up.
If I build a plane that I know will say have a gyro on the ailerons and I can put 3 servos instead of 1, I do it. I also oversize the gyro if I can.
The one plane that probably has the most hours with a gyro of mine is a dynam Hawksky. yes, cheap dynam servos, you don't get much cheaper than thos. They are pretty much the $4 9g servos you see on most planes. 25+ hours of flying it and 20 of those are with a gyro on the aileron. About 5-8 crashes from Rx extreme testing and they still work. HOWEVER, I flew it in rate mode and only 30% gain. I have some digital servos and some analogs. Some cheap Digitals are really chatty, and then add a gyro and it's extra chatty. Futabas, Hitecs, Hyperions, I'd not have any doubt they are just fine with a gyro with a moderate gain. Any of the cheaper servos I have in use currently (EXI, Tower Pro, Hextronix etc), I keep the gain down to a reasonable level.
For something like tail rudder use, where I turn it off except on take off, not such a big deal and my gains are higher like 80%.
Servo cycler, good idea for anyone, not just gyro user.
I find the digitals work better with a gyro, but also work harder. I have no problem putting an analog servo in on a gyro controlled aileron. I will get improvements to the wind but not the same as when I go the 9 yards and go digital, mems sensor, ball links, minimize slop etx.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Silverexpress...


Sorry this is a little wordy but I fly one of these stabilizers and there are some good points here I just wanted to share with those thinking about getting one and you can't believe how much you will enjoy them... They are just too cool...

You mentioned placing the stabilizer up in the nose but from all I've read and have experienced with my Feytec FY30A, which is all but identical to the new Guardian coming out, they highly recommend for proper balancing that the stabilizer be placed as close as you can to right over your CG... It's not always possible but from my own experience even an inch makes a difference on how it understands what your normal level flying attitude is... I thought you could place it anywhere but it sure flies level, and corrects for level so much better when mounted over CG as they instruct in the manual...


Just an additional note on the FY30A... It has 4 micro dip switches that are set for various wing configs, ie: Traditional Aircraft with Ailerons, Elevators, Rudder, and Throttle... Then another dip switch layout for Flying Wings with, or without Rudder, then another layout for V-Tail with Ailerons, and a layout for V-Tail without Ailerons, another for Traditional, without Ailerons, and dip switch settings for Camera Gimbal Stabilization...

Ok this too is cool... There is also a setting for memorizing what is your planes truest level flying... You set a dip switch then fly and trim your plane in Manual Mode 1, where the Stabilizer is turned off and you are totally controlling your plane...

They want you to trim the plane best you can for level straight flight at a given throttle, like maybe 1/3rd throttle, or 1/2 throttle... Then when you make a few passes and she is as trimmed for level and straight flight the best you can get her, you flip your 3-way switch down to the Full Auto Stabilization Mode 3, and don't touch your sticks for 3 seconds while she is flying level all by herself... The FY30A then memorizes what you have trimmed your plane for flying level...

After 3 or 4 seconds of straight flying you flip your 3-way switch back to it's up position which puts you back in Manual Mode 1, again where you are fully flying, and you then land...

At this point you reset your micro dip switches for whatever wing\plane combination you normally fly in, and the FY30A now has memorized what your most level and true flying attitude is, and she stabilizes on that baseline in a most amazing way...

It can also be done by manually leveling your plane to what you think is her most accurate level flying attitude and set the dip switch position for memorizing your guessed at level attitude... I have done it both ways and the actual flying method is most accurate, but setting it for level flight right on the kitchen counter worked very close to actual flying and trimming, so either method works...

I actually leveled my plane with the FY30A mounted in the plane on my kitchen counter and placed a good quality tiny bubble balancer right on top of the FY30A as it was mounted within my plane... Then I fine tuned my leveling of both the wings and tail to get the bubble balance as level as I could... I then flipped the 3 way switch down on my Tx to Full Auto Stab Mode 3 and with the dip switch set for recording what is level I let her set for 3 to 4 seconds per the manual and she memorized what my bubble balance said was level while it sat right on top of the actual FY30A unit mounted within the plane... It did a great job of setting a true level baseline for the FY30A to see as true level... Sorry so borring, ha...

When finished letting the FY30A memorize level flight if you just switch your 3 way switch all the way back down into Full Auto Stabilization Mode 3 while her tail is sitting on the ground (on a tail dragger like my FunCub) the FY30A will pitch her elevator down waiting for wind to make her sit level as she would normally be in level flight... By simply opening the throttle she will very soon lift her tail off until she's level and with enough throttle she will lift off and climb per throttle input only... Her course will be straight as an arrow controlled by her rudder being stabilized and her wings will be perfectly leveled as necessary by the stabilizer also, and all this even in winds guys with 30% planes are grounded in...

Until you experience how both the upcoming Guardian and or FY30A stabilize perfectly still in 20mph winds you just won't believe it... I was completely blown away by it and seriously for 3D it makes you fly like a Pro and for Scale flying whether in an EDF or a HK B17 like I want to build these new Stabilizers will amaze everyone around you..

Mine so far has been for making really stable HD Video's... They are just too cool and the best bucks you'll ever spend... Just my opinion though, ha...


These 2 Vimeo Videos really paint a good picture of what both the FY30A and the Guardian can do...


http://vimeo.com/28150111


This second one especially... I can only imaging touching a wing on the ground with my Edge 540T while doing a low knife edge pass... My plane would be all over the ground, but check out how the 3 axis stabilizer allows the wing tip to drag the ground time and again...


http://vimeo.com/30083755




Happy Flyin'
bnick
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 01:07 AM
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Thanks for the info bnick!
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 04:25 AM
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I'm assuming that the ET Gaurdian has all the same features as the FY30A demonstrated in the videos above?
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 08:01 PM
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wazzer...



Good question and the same one I've been asking on several other RC forums... Several sources think it's made by the same guys at Feytech who make all that great FPV gear... Very cool story too about how they came together as a couple young graduates who wanted to create the gear so many enjoy today...



It's so similar in appearance to the FY30A but there are differences, and the Guardian seems to have a nice GUI for setting gains via USB to a PC just as we do now with our Flymentors... My FY30A flashes updated BIOS's to it's ROM chip as they are released, but as I understand there is no GUI software for my FY30A so right off the Guardian has that nice feature even though both units still need to have their Gain Pots adjusted to what the owner wants each pot to stabilize too... As with a Heli Gyro you can gain too high and I had my rudder too high once last week and my whole tail was yawing almost a full 45 as she flew across the sky with increased speed... If I slowed down she was fine... Same oscillation can occur with ailerons and elevator to with too much speed... Right now mine are set to full gain and I love it for HD video stability and I can fly her full throttle and she won't oscillate on any of the 3 axis's...


I didn't see where the dip switches are on the Guardian and they are not where they are on my FY30A... They might not even exist if wing configs are set per their Windows program... I do like again that the new Guardian can be adjusted for stabilizing gain by the Tx while you fly, just as we do with our Heli's Heading Hold and Rate Mode Gyro's...


It's this $79 price for the Guardian that is really catching my attention... This thing, or something similar could find it's way easily into many vendors new trainer models, just as Eflite now has in their newest AS3X flagship technology... When I first flew the Flymentor on Heli's I knew it would just be a matter of months until all vendors offered FLB stabilizers of which some would be self balancing trainers...



As I wrote some folks say they are a crutch to learning to really fly, whether it be in a plane, or a full CP Heli, and they are all entitled to their opinions, but for me I simply see them as real fun, and have been a superb way for me to teach both my Grandsons and my daughter how to fly both FP and CP Heli's without the costly crash repairs... They also flew Real Flight 4.5 and now 6.0 simulator so we cannot discount it's importance...

As so many have said 'Crashes Happen' but if a stabilizer saves even one or two crashes it can easily pay for itself...



These stabilizers are just plain fun and offer so much to so many, in helping beginners learn, 3D flyers look great, scale flyers look real, video nuts make nice movies, FPV boys fly far away, etc...


Cool stuff and I'm ordering a Guardian for my wife's Birthday Present... Yup that's how I'll get one, ha...



Happy Week...
bnick
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 09:13 PM
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Can some one confirm if the Guardian has a three-axis gyro and three-axis accelerometer as this is what the FY-30A claim to have.

I have only red that the Guardian uses a 3 axis gyro. I have not red any mention of the accelerometer.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 12:12 AM
FPV junkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnick2k8 View Post
wazzer...
good question and the same one i've been asking on several other rc forums... several sources think it's made by the same guys at feytech




"no"
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 02:20 AM
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Well there you have it, ha...
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 03:18 AM
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m-beeson...

Boy the closer you look the more they both do seem to use the same, Gravitational, and 3 Axis Rotational Sensing... It may just be a play on words from the 2 vendors...


Here's what Eagle Tree states in their sales ad:


Q: How does the Guardian work?

The Guardian's built-in state of the art sensors constantly measure the gravitational forces and rotation of your model in 3 axes. Using the sensor data, the Guardian's processor performs complex calculations thousands of times a minute to keep track of your model's orientation.




Ok, Now this is right from the Feytech FY30A Manual:



INTRODUCTION


FY30A has an integrated three-axis gyro and three-axis accelerometer which
controls the aircraft movement in three-dimensional space. By using your remote control, the unit can be turned on or off for the following functions:

One last point though... If the Guardian doesn't have the same ability that the FY30A has then that would tend to explain the approximate $50 difference between the two, maybe...

Both the Guardian and FY30A have 3D Modes and 2D Modes... Could be just a coiencidence with everyone trying to copy each other these days, maybe...

They are still a kick in the pants to fly...
bnick
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 03:42 AM
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All valid questions,


but I know for a fact that Eagle Tree has an engineer who designed both Guardian Stabilizers.

Guardian OSD Pro expander was such a great product that they decided to go ahead with their discussions of having a 2D/3D model (targeting the LOS and non OSD PRO users)

Guardian 2D/3D built upon the Guardian expander technology.

I don't know if they were built in the same factory in China, but I know that Eagle Tree has designed this stabilizer.


The arguement that they look alike doesn't even hold water. The only thing they have in common is that they have places to plug in wires and potentiometers to adjust gains.



Look no further than their own products page. The team that designed these products and wrote the supporting firmware did not need to copy the Fyetech. They had a vision of a product and they created it.

Saying that Eagle Tree coppied the Fy30 would be like saying that Ferrari coppied the Volkswagon Bug. They both are based upon a similar Principal, but they both took their own approach of bringing it to fruition...


-Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnick2k8 View Post
m-beeson...

Boy the closer you look the more they both do seem to use the same, Gravitational, and 3 Axis Rotational Sensing... It may just be a play on words from the 2 vendors...


Here's what Eagle Tree states in their sales ad:


Q: How does the Guardian work?

The Guardian's built-in state of the art sensors constantly measure the gravitational forces and rotation of your model in 3 axes. Using the sensor data, the Guardian's processor performs complex calculations thousands of times a minute to keep track of your model's orientation.




Ok, Now this is right from the Feytech FY30A Manual:



INTRODUCTION


FY30A has an integrated three-axis gyro and three-axis accelerometer which
controls the aircraft movement in three-dimensional space. By using your remote control, the unit can be turned on or off for the following functions:

One last point though... If the Guardian doesn't have the same ability that the FY30A has then that would tend to explain the approximate $50 difference between the two, maybe...

Both the Guardian and FY30A have 3D Modes and 2D Modes... Could be just a coiencidence with everyone trying to copy each other these days, maybe...

They are still a kick in the pants to fly...
bnick
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 01:01 PM
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The new Guardian sure sounds like an extremly interesting and helpful device.
I have experience with the FMA CoPilot II on a Heli and it can save a bird and also make one easier to fly for sure.

I have read hundreds of flight report post in the RTF Micro Forum about the AS3X line of aircraft and most are really raving about how it lets them fly a feather weight micro in 20 MPH winds even gusty winds that they would not fly their .60 size aircraft in.

I have avoided the AS3X aircraft as their system is not adjustable and can not be turned off. I love the way my UMX Beast V1 flys or should I say the way it lets me fly it. Flight Stabilization would be nice when a cross wind is really gusty or if one is learning Knife Edge,Harrier etc. Guess I am old school but I do not even use rudder / aileron mixes for KE unless the model tucks extremly bad such as my Zero Gravity Pitts Python and even then it is on a switch. Nice to see ET is doing it right as usual.

Who knows perhaps these will let an older RC Pilot such as myself fly more like I did years ago when my reflexes where much faster.

Charles
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