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Old Jun 09, 2012, 10:22 AM
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Great White North
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Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
Yep.....
Yes . Two position switches are tricky to work with !

Best to use the servo monitor screen on your radio as an aid to getting the overal gains translated from a dial to the switch

With a combination of channel endpoint , offset etc you can achieve the two levels of gain you need

Also you can get 6 different positions out of mixing two switch channels on a radio (3positon and. 2 position) - but that is overkill for this application or 4 positions with 2 two position switched mixed - I had followed instructions to do this on the DIYdrones site when I was experimenting with the arducopter .

Al
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 10:52 AM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by steamhead19 View Post
Hi Bill,

I Pre-ordered and pre-paid for a Guardian some weeks ago with the believe that I would have receipt of the unit by now. No unit yet. Can you please advise a resonable expectation when I should see my Guardian.

I'm real keen to get the unit so I can go and start learning to fly RC. If it takes another week or two so be it but an indication would be great.

Cheers,
Post 515 is the latest news.
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 05:27 PM
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Steamhead, thanks for your patience. Yes, post 515 sums up the status - things continue to go smoothly.
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 09:09 PM
Static Model Collector LOL
Katy, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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While we are all waiting on the slow boat from China to arrive, we depend on the few beta testers for answers and entertainment

With that being said, any new videos

Has anyone tested how well the unit handles slow speed, just prior to stalling.

Thanks,

FCA.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:15 AM
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United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAME747 View Post
While we are all waiting on the slow boat from China to arrive, we depend on the few beta testers for answers and entertainment

With that being said, any new videos

Has anyone tested how well the unit handles slow speed, just prior to stalling.

Thanks,

FCA.
Flame,

I have been using guardian for quite a while, which is the origin of guardian 2d/3d. I can tell you that 2d/3d will not keep your plane from stalling, only speed and power can do that, but I know that it will work like hell to keep it level.

I expect nothing but an absolutely amazing piece of equipment, with the guardian 2d/3d

-Mike
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 06:39 AM
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Honolulu
Joined Jul 2003
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F-4D Skyray direct mode 3d test

Hi Everyone

Got to do more testing on Sunday. With the F-4D sorry Flame747 the person who usually videos for me was not flying today. My other pilots that were flying with me tried to take video and had a very hard time so I don't have any usable video.

1. Test 3D direct mode: First I had to find out my microsecond limits for my controls. I did this using a pulse reader connected to my Aile, Ele, and Rud.

Why I did this: When I was playing around with direct rate in 3D I noticed that the Guardian would push the Elevons to larger than normal throws using full stick deflections. I used the servo limit feature to set the endpoints that the Guardian could move the control surfaces to it worked very well.

2. I set the 3D direct mode to .25 Hz I left the Roll and Yaw at 1 Hz. The help file explained that at full stick deflection the Guardian would for example try to roll the plane 360 degrees in 1 second. On the ground this seemed to give me about the throws I wanted.

3. Flying. The plane performed normally on takeoff. When I tried to do some turns, and rolls what a difference, Now I had full aileron authority again, and it did not feel like you were fighting a Gyro any more. The plane was rock solid.

4. In conclusion, the Guardian performed as advertised in Direct Rate 3D. Rock solid flight, and the ability to really carve up the sky while feeling like you were in total control without any slow response, or muted responses. It felt like I was flying the plane without stabilization, but with the rock solid stability, and all the maneuverability that I wanted on tap.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 06:59 AM
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Honolulu
Joined Jul 2003
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F-4D Skyray 2D recover test

Hello Everyone

My secondary testing on Sunday was aimed at using 2D mode as a "panic button" to recover from unusual attitudes.

After testing 3D direct rate, I flew in manual to get into a unusual attitude then moved in to 2D mode via a switch to perform a hands off recovery. (wanted to video see above post sorry no video)

I was able to perform hands off recoveries from these attitudes.

Inverted, inverted dive, inverted dive rolled 40 deg, vertical fast, vertical slow, dive rolled 30 deg. All recovered correctly and right away with minimum altitude loss.

The ability for the guardian to recover hands of is very impressive.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 07:06 AM
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Honolulu
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Hi Flame747

The only slow speed testing I did with the F-4D was in landing approach.

And some High Alpha flight, I can tell you that the Skyray does not like to fly slow, however the Guardian did a pretty good job keeping it in the air. Again not very definitive tests as it just not the plane to fly slow.

Normally I enter 3D mode and turn up the gain to 100% after gear is down. The stabilization is good all the way to touchdown. If I fly my F-4D without stabilization during short final it is very very easy to get into a PIO and go bunny hopping down the runway.

With stabilization on landing is a comparative breeze.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Hi Aero65.

Thank you for the most informative reports on your Guardian testing. I was especially interested to hear how the 3D Direct mode would perform. Seems to me that for an everyday sport or scale flyer, 3D Direct is the mode that would give the most natural feel in flying and yet smooth out most unwanted motions of the plane.

I experimented with three rage gyros in an ordinary sport plane and experienced that same "carve up the sky" sensation that you describe. Very satisfying sense of absolute control. Until I tried a Split S. It was a real heart stopper due to the reduced pitch authority. I thought for sure I'd hit the ground before completing the pullout. Again, your report on control authority for 3D Direct is most encouraging.

One question about the 2D mode that I keep wondering: If you are flying straight and level ("cruise flight") in 2D, and then close the throttle, will the Guardian try to maintain constant pitch attitude ? If so, it seems to me that the plane would slow down and ultimately develop a very high angle of attack while trying to maintain the constant pitch attitude. Ultimately, this could lead to a stall. Have you experimented with this ?

Dick
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 04:46 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otrcman View Post
...
One question about the 2D mode that I keep wondering: If you are flying straight and level ("cruise flight") in 2D, and then close the throttle, will the Guardian try to maintain constant pitch attitude ? If so, it seems to me that the plane would slow down and ultimately develop a very high angle of attack while trying to maintain the constant pitch attitude. Ultimately, this could lead to a stall.
...
If the wings are kept level (left vs. right wing), this type of "stall" can be desirable (and done on purpose) in 2 situations that I can think of:
* landings: losing altitude, but wings level and nose a bit up
* the 3D elevator manuever: again, losing altitude, but wings level and nose a bit up
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by flying-llama View Post
If the wings are kept level (left vs. right wing), this type of "stall" can be desirable (and done on purpose) in 2 situations that I can think of:
* landings: losing altitude, but wings level and nose a bit up
* the 3D elevator manuever: again, losing altitude, but wings level and nose a bit up
Yes, you may find some specific examples where the stall you describe is desirable, but for the most part it is highly undesirable, especially if you are trying to keep the wings level with aileron control.

I demonstrate that sort of "stabilized stall" to my full scale flying students on a regular basis. But there are several caveats for doing it. First, we don't do it below 2000 feet AGL. Second, on most airplanes you dare not use aileron inputs to keep the airplane wings level. You have to use rudder. Depending on the airplane, and the CG when you perform the stall, it is very likely that you will have a violent roll reversal if you attempt to use ailerons alone. With a stability augmentation system such as the Guardian, the ailerons will respond to any roll motion and could exacerbate what modelers call "tip stall".

This is not a criticism of the Guardian, it's just an attempt to understand how the whole system plays out in conjunction with the basic aerodynamics of the airframe.

I agree that most 3D models still retain roll control well into the stall, but that's because the propellor flow straightens the relative wind such that the inboard wing is not really stalled in spite of the apparent high nose-up attitude. In addition, the ailerons are usually full span and immersed in propellor flow.

Some years ago I was one of the pilot test subjects on a Piper Twin Commanche which had been modified such that the left seat controls ran thorough a computer, which then drove the flight controls. The computer could be programmed to respond in several different modes. One of the modes was called "attitude command", which is somewhat like Guardian 2D/3D in the 2D mode. In the roll axis, it made precision tasks such as instrument approaches very easy. In pitch, attitude command was a delight within a small range of power settings, such as tracking a glide slope on an ILS approach. But it proved quite dangerous with gross power reductions because it did not permit the natural stability of the airplane to lower its nose to maintain flying speed. This feature negated our overall intent to make the airplane safe for an inexperienced or inattentive pilot.

Dick
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 01:11 AM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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I have had 2 park flyer size planes that were a real pain to land because they had a lot of downthrust. When decreasing power over the threshold, the nose would ease up making unstable. Took a while to figure it out.
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 08:32 AM
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USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otrcman View Post
...
One question about the 2D mode that I keep wondering: If you are flying straight and level ("cruise flight") in 2D, and then close the throttle, will the Guardian try to maintain constant pitch attitude ? If so, it seems to me that the plane would slow down and ultimately develop a very high angle of attack while trying to maintain the constant pitch attitude. Ultimately, this could lead to a stall. Have you experimented with this ?

Dick
So in this kind of situation, would it be better if there is a way to automatically reduce the pitch gain so that it will allow for a slight nose down to encourage gliding? Would this alleviate the possible stall which Guardian may induce (if there is) in this kind of situation?

Rico.
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 10:13 AM
Static Model Collector LOL
Katy, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,448 Posts
Ok let's go back to basics

From the limited info that's available, the unit needs to be mounted on a flat surface, from experience when I used my FY 20 even though the unit was placed on a flat surface in the model, once the unit was activated it tend to pitch down, and roll to the right

Solution - 1 either use trim to keep the model level, it worker but took away from the models flight performance

Or 2 shim the unit to achieve level flight without using excessive trim

On the FMA Co-Pilot II, one can compensate for any unwanted roll, and pitch by using flight angles, so that the control surface stays level at neutral

In short, what options are available to trim out any unwanted pitch and roll tendencies with the guardian

Thanks

FCA

Aero, Al. Keep up the good work
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
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Folks,

Even when the thermophile based stabilizers were the only game in town (copilot etc), it was always stated that a stabilizer will not prevent a stall. You have to use your throttle.

Now you could set level at a silght pitch down, so that with zero throttle, the plane continues to decend stablized, but that may not be what you want when you fly with throttle.

Experienced folks can use the guardian leveling in slow speed manuevers, but if you go outside the aerodynamic envelope of your model, no stabilizer can prevent a stall. But if you have enough altitude and power the throttle, the guardian can help restabilize the plane.

Basically keep your speed up in 2d mode above stall speed. In 3d mode do whatever you are capable of flying!!

This is a great, fun product !
Al
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