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Old Feb 14, 2013, 12:48 AM
Guardian Stabilizer
Joined Feb 2012
65 Posts
solarwindsusa: So just confirming: When the unit is in 2D Mode, the AHI is showing as expected after a Reset Level Flight, but in 3D Mode, the AHI is showing completely level, but with an offset from the 2D display?

If this is the case, then you are seeing expected behavior. At this time, the PC display of the AHI shows the Guardian's orientation relative to a set reference orientation. In 2D Mode, this is always the level Pitch and Roll. In 3D Mode, this reference is set each time 3D Heading Lock is activated (aka, when 3D Mode is activated or you center your sticks).

So, you should be able to move your control stick in 3D Mode and see the AHI reset itself to perfectly level. Re-centering the stick will allow you to move the Guardian and see the AHI track from that newly locked 3D heading.

Cheers!
John.T
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 01:48 AM
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Joined May 2012
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I have now 4 Guardian2D/3Ds. They are real planesavers, I would have crashed a plane several times without the possibility to switch on 2D mode.

I use Futaba T8FGS Tx, and I have one three-way switch dedicated for 2D-off-3D mode selection and one dial for master gain.

Normally I put all the pots to about 35% (checking the direction of course) when preparing the plane first time in the workshop, and then start flying with master gain at mid position. Resetting the trim levels first time is somewhat guessing, no way to verify but fly 2D. It if sinks, next reset a little more nose up. Master gain knob is to fine tune the planes behavior, less gain for more control or more gain for heavier winds and gusts.

Many people overthink the setup, it is not complicated if you don't make it. Must admit however, that ET should rewrite the manual, it seems to written by the engineers and is confusing.

The other thing I'm not completely happy with, is Guardians casing. ET has made it light, that's ok, but it is sort of vague, like fish in a wrapper. I haven't been able to figure out a satisfactory way to waterproof if for my waterplanes - waterproofing is no problem but keeping the possibility to access the pots and usb-connector at the same time is not so easy.

I have other gyros too, but for the money Guardian 2D/3D is the best in the market. Just my opinion, however
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:03 AM
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solarwindsusa's Avatar
United States, IL, Montgomery
Joined Apr 2012
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Guardian 3d AHI shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.T View Post
solarwindsusa: So just confirming: When the unit is in 2D Mode, the AHI is showing as expected after a Reset Level Flight, but in 3D Mode, the AHI is showing completely level, but with an offset from the 2D display?

If this is the case, then you are seeing expected behavior. At this time, the PC display of the AHI shows the Guardian's orientation relative to a set reference orientation. In 2D Mode, this is always the level Pitch and Roll. In 3D Mode, this reference is set each time 3D Heading Lock is activated (aka, when 3D Mode is activated or you center your sticks).

So, you should be able to move your control stick in 3D Mode and see the AHI reset itself to perfectly level. Re-centering the stick will allow you to move the Guardian and see the AHI track from that newly locked 3D heading.

Cheers!
John.T
It is not acting as you describe in 3D mode. After switching to 3D mode while the aircraft is on a level surface I move the transmitter control sticks and go back to center position the AHI is still askew. Also, the AHI does not move when the plane is resting in a level configuration and I move the TX control sticks.
Gregg
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 08:06 AM
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United States, AR, Benton
Joined Jul 2007
50 Posts
My experience exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnCat View Post
I have now 4 Guardian2D/3Ds. They are real planesavers, I would have crashed a plane several times without the possibility to switch on 2D mode.

I use Futaba T8FGS Tx, and I have one three-way switch dedicated for 2D-off-3D mode selection and one dial for master gain.

Normally I put all the pots to about 35% (checking the direction of course) when preparing the plane first time in the workshop, and then start flying with master gain at mid position. Resetting the trim levels first time is somewhat guessing, no way to verify but fly 2D. It if sinks, next reset a little more nose up. Master gain knob is to fine tune the planes behavior, less gain for more control or more gain for heavier winds and gusts.

Many people overthink the setup, it is not complicated if you don't make it. Must admit however, that ET should rewrite the manual, it seems to written by the engineers and is confusing.

The other thing I'm not completely happy with, is Guardians casing. ET has made it light, that's ok, but it is sort of vague, like fish in a wrapper. I haven't been able to figure out a satisfactory way to waterproof if for my waterplanes - waterproofing is no problem but keeping the possibility to access the pots and usb-connector at the same time is not so easy.

I have other gyros too, but for the money Guardian 2D/3D is the best in the market. Just my opinion, however
+1 I use a "bubble level" and Robart Incidence Meter to quantify level attitude
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,358 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDougherty, Erie View Post
+1 I use a "bubble level" and Robart Incidence Meter to quantify level attitude
Or, you could use the TLAR (that looks about right) method with a stack of books and magazines to position the plane, fly it to check for level flight, and if OK you are good to go, if not, land and change the AOA by adding or eliminating magazines or books and reset again. Repeat until happy with level flight behavior.

It is really a pretty simple thing to adjust that doesn't require a bubble level, a digital level a Incidence meter or a granite surface plate and a CMM to set.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Joined Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarwindsusa View Post
AHI does not move when the plane is resting in a level configuration and I move the TX control sticks.
Gregg
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDougherty, Erie View Post
+1 I use a "bubble level" and Robart Incidence Meter to quantify level attitude
Maybe you're over-thinking this? Guardian is meant to stabilize in flight, not on your desk top. How does it do in flight?

I have quit even trying to use 2D. No matter how I've set it it's too intrusive for how I want to fly. That said, the best 2D pitch and level reset I did was hooking it up to my laptop, holding the plane in one hand in what looked like it's flight attitude and clicking the reset with the other.

I don't turn Guardian on 'til the planes in my hand to lauch and turn it off as soon as it's on the ground to keep the servos from needlessly maxing out.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 01:52 PM
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United States, IL, Montgomery
Joined Apr 2012
15 Posts
3D Mode AHI shift

I agree that maybe I am over-thinking this but, just being cautious. I have ordered two more Guardians and they are due to arrive tomorrow. If they all act the same then I will ignore. If this one acts "wanky" I will presume it is defective. Sound reasonable?
Gregg
Quote:
Originally Posted by t.edwards View Post
Maybe you're over-thinking this? Guardian is meant to stabilize in flight, not on your desk top. How does it do in flight?

I have quit even trying to use 2D. No matter how I've set it it's too intrusive for how I want to fly. That said, the best 2D pitch and level reset I did was hooking it up to my laptop, holding the plane in one hand in what looked like it's flight attitude and clicking the reset with the other.

I don't turn Guardian on 'til the planes in my hand to lauch and turn it off as soon as it's on the ground to keep the servos from needlessly maxing out.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 01:52 PM
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United States, AR, Benton
Joined Jul 2007
50 Posts
Set up procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by t.edwards View Post
Maybe you're over-thinking this? Guardian is meant to stabilize in flight, not on your desk top. How does it do in flight?

I have quit even trying to use 2D. No matter how I've set it it's too intrusive for how I want to fly. That said, the best 2D pitch and level reset I did was hooking it up to my laptop, holding the plane in one hand in what looked like it's flight attitude and clicking the reset with the other.

I don't turn Guardian on 'til the planes in my hand to lauch and turn it off as soon as it's on the ground to keep the servos from needlessly maxing out.
If you checked back on my posted set up procedure, you would see that I set up on guesstimate AOA, fly and then adjust as needed. Every plane will have a slightly different AOA for "level flight" based on design and CG. The Robart Incidence Meter lets one determine the AOA the provides for level flight so you can reset easily. Most planes fly level with AOA at 2 to 4 degrees positive. The bubble level helps assure the magazines are stacked level. I do most of my setup on the Guardian on a laptop. I don't think this is "over thinking"
Jim
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:03 PM
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United States, IL, Montgomery
Joined Apr 2012
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Just got a response from Eagle Tree

Sorry for the confusion, it is normal for the AHI display to react as you describe when the unit is set for "3D Mode", provided your AHI moves appropriately when in "2D Mode" it sounds that your Guardian 2D/3D is working as it should.

This reassures me that everything is OK.
It would be a good addition to put this little note in the users manual.
Thanks to everyone who helped.
I will follow up with the results of the other units for those who are curious
Gregg
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:08 PM
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarwindsusa View Post
I agree that maybe I am over-thinking this but, just being cautious. I have ordered two more Guardians and they are due to arrive tomorrow. If they all act the same then I will ignore. If this one acts "wanky" I will presume it is defective. Sound reasonable?
Gregg
You can do what I do I replace all my servos every 4 flight.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:32 PM
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solarwindsusa, sorry for the confusion about the PC AHI in 3D mode - it shows the last 3D heading lock as level, and the AHI deviates from that position. There is a sentence in the manual about it, but it's not particularly obvious in it's placement or wording. We've expanded on that, and also added a troubleshooting section for this, which will be in our next version of the manual.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:34 PM
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDougherty, Erie View Post
+1 I use a "bubble level" and Robart Incidence Meter to quantify level attitude
I've glued these to some of my planes and helis.

http://tinyurl.com/a9lvylu
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:01 AM
But often down to earth
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Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
I've glued these to some of my planes and helis.

http://tinyurl.com/a9lvylu
Here's a cheaper source...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-PACK-MINI-...item2ead380076
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:15 AM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Or you could use a smart phone bubble app
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 07:31 AM
Gravity gives sinking feeling
Joined Jun 2011
1,617 Posts
EagleTree Guardian Tested today !!!!

WOW ....... WOW !!!!! What can I say????

On a half-decent weather today, I tested the Guardian in my PZ Super Cub (R&E only) - I was most impressed.

@ 2D I observed oscillations and really couldn't tell much difference. Cub wasn't maintaining the altitude or level flight.

Then switched on to 3D -- well my flying has never been soooooo... good for a long time !!! Cub was rock solid in flying. Maintained Heading Hold and altitude at all throttle level. I got so confident - went from one end of the field to the other (~ 1500 ft or 500 metre) at 12 inch above the ground. Then got even more ambitious, went for nearly 6 inch above ground at 3/4, 1/2 and < 1/2 throttle - no difference. Mintained both altitude and speed. I even made steep turns at 4 feet - all rock steady turns.

Next stop - full monty Catalina - will try it tomorrow.

PS I agree with few other comments on language in the Manual I think it has been written by engineers for enginners. No need to use so much technical vocab. I wud have stumbled at the first post without this thread !!!

Hope to write my version demistifying all techincal staff but written by a fixed wing flyer for fixed wing flyers. I hope to exclude even helicopter jargons which has crept into this manual. No wonder my clubmate asked/ adviced me not to get a Guardian but that was nearly 12 months back.

Cheers
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