Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by billpa, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:19 PM
Registered User
BillyM's Avatar
Canada, MB, Brandon
Joined Jan 2003
499 Posts
evo 9

I've searched this thread for Evo and Multiplex and have not found an answer to my question. Has anyone had success installing the Guardian using a Multiplex Evo 9?

I've installed my Guardian and I think I have a mixing problem. The elevator and the ailerons work together..... I have the guardian mapped to the "O" switch using AUX 6.

Any idea how to solve this problem?

Should I buy a new transmitter? Which one? I'll be using it for FPV........

Thanks,
Bill
BillyM is offline Find More Posts by BillyM
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:20 PM
Registered User
France, IdF, Paris
Joined Nov 2008
32 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamonH View Post
Gold, not sure where you got that price from but here is a link to them.

http://hobbywireless.com/index.php?m...index&cPath=83
Hello. Have ypu had a chance to test it ? I am really wondering what are the negative points against the uardian, except maybe the weight which is 25g instead of 15g mqinly due to the metalic case. It offers the same 2d and 3d modes with it seems even the possibility to trim the level flight while airborne. Also the altitude management and a fly in circle,feature, in case of panic. Plus of course te gps possibilities. I am wondering why no one on this forum is talking about alternatives for the guardian. I bought 2 guardians already and I like it but if something better for the same price exist I would like to know if someone tested it.
Mackens is offline Find More Posts by Mackens
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:23 PM
Registered User
DamonH's Avatar
United States, NM, Clovis
Joined Oct 2011
2,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackens View Post
Hello. Have ypu had a chance to test it ? I am really wondering what are the negative points against the uardian, except maybe the weight which is 25g instead of 15g mqinly due to the metalic case. It offers the same 2d and 3d modes with it seems even the possibility to trim the level flight while airborne. Also the altitude management and a fly in circle,feature, in case of panic. Plus of course te gps possibilities. I am wondering why no one on this forum is talking about alternatives for the guardian. I bought 2 guardians already and I like it but if something better for the same price exist I would like to know if someone tested it.
Nope...I don't own any. I have a guardian and a FY30A but none of those. I actually never heard of them until it was posted here recently. I would like to give them a try though
DamonH is online now Find More Posts by DamonH
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:06 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,791 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
458.00 - 758.00? this is the same price?
I think this figure came from this page:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=16029430702

The price numbers have a in front of them, so it is not US$. It seems to be Chinese Yuan .
flying-llama is offline Find More Posts by flying-llama
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:20 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
1,920 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyM View Post
I've installed my Guardian and I think I have a mixing problem. The elevator and the ailerons work together..... I have the guardian mapped to the "O" switch using AUX 6.
This sounds like you have an elevon mix active. This could be in the transmitter or the Guardian. If you actually do have elevons, the mix must be set in the Guardian and disabled in the transmitter.
choochoo22 is online now Find More Posts by choochoo22
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:38 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
1,920 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackens View Post
I am wondering why no one on this forum is talking about alternatives for the guardian. I bought 2 guardians already and I like it but if something better for the same price exist I would like to know if someone tested it.
The topic comes up once in a while but this is, after all, a Guardian thread sponsored by Eagle Tree. That said, that feiyu Dos is the most appealing alternative I've seen so far.

Based on nothing but casual observation and assumptions, in other words not worth much; For casual sport flyers the Guardian is probably the better choice, it's cheaper, better supported, field proven, lighter, smaller, does all the sport flier needs and does it well. If I were shopping for a device for an FPV or camera plane, however, I would give the Dos a closer look. The altitude hold and return home features are very appealing. I believe the circling and return home features only work with the gps module but altitude hold is standard.

It would be interesting to see some comparative tests.
choochoo22 is online now Find More Posts by choochoo22
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:03 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,791 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackens View Post
.... I am wondering why no one on this forum is talking about alternatives for the guardian. I bought 2 guardians already and I like it but if something better for the same price exist I would like to know if someone tested it.
This thread is in a forum for Eagle Tree System devices, and the parent forum is for Vendors in general. That is, this forum is for a particular vendor, as opposed to a particular class of devices.

What you are looking for is interesting, but there does not seem to be a "home" for discussing gyro systems for airplanes in the current RCG forum set-up (unlike gyro systems for multi-rotor heli's, for example). There is some discussion in the FPV and aerial photography forums, Guardian is discussed here in a vendor forum, AS3X (limited as it is) is discussed in micro-RTFs, and I have seen versions of KK for airplanes (as opposed for multi-rotors) discussed somewhere.

The closest that I have seen to such a "home" is a thread on using gyros in airplanes in general:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1035605

From what I have seen so far, one feature this particular Guardian device has that other stabilizing systems that I have read about do not seem to mention is detecting oscillations from too high a gyro gain and automatically turning down the gyro gain to stop those oscillations.
flying-llama is offline Find More Posts by flying-llama
Last edited by flying-llama; Jan 21, 2013 at 11:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:17 AM
An Aussie in Chicago
Joined Apr 2012
1,255 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lud View Post
Plug and play this product certainly is not - I'm disapointed in it's inability to independently set between 2d/3d without Tx programming /pc interface. - it only needed a micro switch /jumper.

Trying to program my TX to have this setup on 2 switches has proved beyond my meagre IQ and not haing a 3 ways switch means guess work basically in trying to set it up (I followed trying mixes but to be honest nothing seemed to change)

For all that being said - there seems to be some basic gyro function going on in Roll and Pitch with about 50% of the throw (reading above i now understand the preset of 40% overall gain) without the guardian switched on ... nothing from the rudder even holdin it in extreme yaw/knife edge.

I'd agree with a previous comment that this product works best with a high end multi function radio (not that a 2610 is really "cheap")

I'm at a loss...
Works fine on my $60 Tx.
hendrnk is online now Find More Posts by hendrnk
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:34 AM
Registered User
Ipoh, Perak Malaysia
Joined Jul 2006
3,987 Posts
I think the confusion with the 200% multiplier comes from ricolanso (I think?) setting up his ET with the master gain set in the middle. When he dials the plane in using the pots for this middle setting, he refers to this as his base reference. So, when he turns the master gain towards 1.1ms, he is reducing the gain. However, when he turns the master gain towards 1.9ms, then he is multiplying the gain.

In actual fact, he had his master gain set such that the ET firmware is only taking 50% of the total gain allowed as set by the pots when his master gain knob is at 1.5ms. When his master gain is at 1.9ms, then it would appear to him that his gain is multiplied by 2, when in actual fact the firmware is only taking 100% of the gain as set by the pots.

I hope I am making sense...?

regards,

chewy
chewytm is offline Find More Posts by chewytm
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:11 AM
Registered User
Galand's Avatar
Long Island, NY
Joined May 2010
1,524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrnk View Post
Works fine on my $60 Tx.
For some that is not expensive enough to work "properly".
Galand is offline Find More Posts by Galand
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:15 AM
Suspended Account
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2012
3,265 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
For some that is not expensive enough to work "properly".
I see now they sell $1400 radios they guarantee will work with this system
goldsworthy is offline Find More Posts by goldsworthy
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:14 PM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,413 Posts
Not always. Dual/split aileron servos work but dual/split elevators do not, according to ET. Not sure why the Aux could not be used for either.

According to them; the only way is a Y connector with servo reverse on one side or a $65 JR servo match box. Sooo simple but yet so complicated.
stegl is online now Find More Posts by stegl
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:44 PM
Registered User
ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
1,473 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewytm View Post
I think the confusion with the 200% multiplier comes from ricolanso (I think?) setting up his ET with the master gain set in the middle. When he dials the plane in using the pots for this middle setting, he refers to this as his base reference. So, when he turns the master gain towards 1.1ms, he is reducing the gain. However, when he turns the master gain towards 1.9ms, then he is multiplying the gain.

In actual fact, he had his master gain set such that the ET firmware is only taking 50% of the total gain allowed as set by the pots when his master gain knob is at 1.5ms. When his master gain is at 1.9ms, then it would appear to him that his gain is multiplied by 2, when in actual fact the firmware is only taking 100% of the gain as set by the pots.

I hope I am making sense...?

regards,

chewy
No Chewy go back to the original post when the question was initially raised. I was simply repeating what the Manual Ver 1.7 is saying. Anyway, this subject has been beaten enough, even from the middle of last year. I think everyone already has understood the basic concept I think...

Cheers.
ricoalonso is offline Find More Posts by ricoalonso
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:59 PM
Guardian Stabilizer
Joined Feb 2012
65 Posts
Hi All, sorry for the long silence!

To all discussing the meanings of the Master Gain vs the individual axis gains: Sorry for the confusion here and thanks for the repeated iteration on the best explanation. This can either be a confusing or a very simple topic, depending on how you approach it. The simple explanation is that the Master Gain channel is a multiplier on the gains set in the potentiometers for each axis. When it is set to servo deflection = -100%, then that turns stabilization OFF. When you set it to +100%, then stabilization will be set to HIGH, assuming that your potentiometer gains are set to non-zeroed values. When the Master Gain channel is left disconnected, it defaults to just under what you'd get when the dial is set to 0% servo deflection (1.5ms).

For those that are looking for a "calibrated" answer, I'm afraid that this is where it is honestly a little arbitrary and likely the source of the confusion. Originally, we specified that "centered" would correspond to 50% Master Gain while full deflection would yield 100% Master Gain. The channel being disconnected would equate to about 40% Master Gain, leaving stabilization on, but less likely to cause strong oscillations in the case of an accidental channel disconnect.

Upon seeing people trying to grok this nomenclature, we decided to change the language in the manual to instead make the Master Gain 100% when the slider or knob was centered, with a maximum possible Master Gain of 200%. The intention here was to help clarify that leaving this channel disconnected (giving about 80% Master Gain) would still allow for normal operation. Again, this is an arbitrary scale. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a fan of the current nomenclature. I'm happy to help with any further questions on this and hopefully we as a group can come up with some concise language that clarifies this.

lud: I'm sorry for your confusion and thanks for the feedback. There are many ways to set 2D or 3D Mode as the default modes. Our PC app is very powerful and easy to use. This option is available in the main screen of the Guardian's config page. If you can't use the PC software, you can also set the default flight mode by following the instructions in the manual to enter and use the Stick Menu. Using the Stick Menu requires either a 5-channel Tx/Rx combo or re-routing either the Throttle or Rudder signals to the Mode channel to simulate the Mode switch. Once the unit is configured, the default will be chosen whenever the Mode channel is disconnected. If either of these methods aren't working for you, then our Tech Support guys can be contacted here.

Andre Germain: That is very strange. It sounds like you may be seeing an extremely rare bug that. The behavior should go away after a reboot. If it doesn't, could you please open a ticket with our support team?

I've talked with Billpa about creating a community editable document / manual for the Guardian that would compile all of the things that have been arrived at in this thread. Does anybody have any thoughts here? Many of these questions have been touched upon a long while ago, but it's easy for conclusions and advice to be lost in the discussion. A Google Doc or wiki would be an obvious idea. We want to have something that can be contributed to openly but that would be robust against vandalism. Of course, we continue to update our official manual with errors as they are reported but I'm always amazed by what the community is capable of coming up with.
John.T is offline Find More Posts by John.T
Last edited by John.T; Jan 22, 2013 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Add link
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:36 PM
Registered User
TheBum's Avatar
McKinney, TX
Joined May 2007
1,545 Posts
Thanks for the thorough explanation, John. The manual changes will be welcome from me at least, as they will clear up the confusion.
TheBum is online now Find More Posts by TheBum
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Can I control Guardian stabilizer with DX6i? njwxyz Eagle Tree Systems 9 Jun 02, 2014 12:17 PM
Discussion GPS 2D Plots incomplete, 3D OK jackerbes Eagle Tree Systems 1 Oct 23, 2011 09:42 PM
Discussion Premier 1st generation, Gen 2 Vector unit, 2D or 3D motor unit lanternfly RC Kites 0 Oct 05, 2011 09:42 PM
Data 2d or 3d wing ribs? Marty7n Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 56 Sep 22, 2011 04:06 PM
Discussion 3View to 3D to 2d techasist CAD/CAM 0 Mar 27, 2011 12:19 AM