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Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
With the mode at 2D and Master Gain at the middle position, I tilted the plane and measured the aileron deflection which I get at around 4mm. Then, I increase the master gain knob to the max position and measured again the aileron deflection and I got 8mm or 2x the previous measurement.
All that demonstrates is that gain increased as you turned up master gain, as I think we all would expect.

With master gain at max, you will also see a gain increase as you adjust the pots from the "middle position" (your start setting in your "demonstration") towards max.

What has been demonstrated? Just that you get more gain as the master gain or pot settings are increased.

Have the master gain maxed and still need more gain? Increase the pot setting(s).
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:50 AM
An Aussie in Chicago
Joined Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
You ain't kidding! The thread reminds me of the KK boards for quad copters!. That's why I got a NAZA I just want everything to work so I can have fun flying. I don't like to do settings adjustments write code etc. I wanted the Guardian for 2D flying only. It sounded like what I was looking for. But if I have to spend all my time making adjustments I don't want one. I wanted something that would work with basic factory settings plug and play so to speak. Well, I guess I jumped the gun by buying two of these Guardians along with all the extras. I will see if they sell in the classified section.
The guardian is a set and forget device. Just dial in the pots, put it in 2D mode test the plane and make sure all the control surfaces are going the right way and not deflecting too much or not enough.

Set the neutral position on the bench and fly to test.

I hooked up the gain portion for aerobatics / 3D mode. SO I could dial in more or less gain if needed. I haven't touched the pots since first installation but I do touch the gains depending on what I'm doing. I turn it up for Hovering or Knife edge just to help hold the attitude. Its not necessary to adjust or even have it connected.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:28 AM
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Having just set up my first Guardian this weekend, without a master gain channel, the process really is easy. Setting the gains is a somewhat tedious process without the master gain, but tedium does not equal complexity; the three gains are only parameters you need to tweak to get a very nice flying model.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
Setting the gains is a somewhat tedious process without the master gain,
Same is true with the master gain hooked up. For best results you still need to find a balance of pot settings where all the control surfaces are just shy of oscillations. I know my 3D planes need the aileron pot backed off quite bit or they flap their wings.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mackens View Post
Again, this device seems to offer many of the above
http://www.feiyu-tech.com/product-en.php?id=29

Do you guys had the chance to test it for comparison ?
Hi everyone. No one have any feedback on this feiyu Dos device which seems to offer the same features than the guardian and even more including barometer to manage altitude and the option to plug a gps for a return to home feature. And for the same price.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mackens View Post
Hi everyone. No one have any feedback on this feiyu Dos device which seems to offer the same features than the guardian and even more including barometer to manage altitude and the option to plug a gps for a return to home feature. And for the same price.
458.00 - 758.00? this is the same price?
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
458.00 - 758.00? this is the same price?
Gold, not sure where you got that price from but here is a link to them.

http://hobbywireless.com/index.php?m...index&cPath=83
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 03:10 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
Yes, my Master Gain pot was all set to max end points (-100% & +100%).

As for whether the Master Gain multiplies the pot gain by 200% (or 2x), yes, at least I can roughly say that it is true. With the mode at 2D and Master Gain at the middle position, I tilted the plane and measured the aileron deflection which I get at around 4mm. Then, I increase the master gain knob to the max position and measured again the aileron deflection and I got 8mm or 2x the previous measurement. Sorry, I did not get any video for that.
What the video does verify, which I think is in line with the understanding of most of us, is that more overall gain is available with the gain wire connected. There are at least two interpretations of this, however.

A) The master gain multiplies the pot gain x2 so with both at max you get X gain corresponding to a certain surface deflection. With the master at midpoint you get half of X. With the wire disconnected you lose the 2x boost leaving only the pot gain which is half of X.

B) The master gain attenuates the pot gain so with both maxed you get maximum gain of X. With the master at midpoint you get half of X. With the wire disconnected Guardian defaults to 40% of X.

Both versions can find support in various places in various versions of the manual and both result in nearly identical behavior so clearly the difference is not too important. Note, however, that if B is true, there is a difference between turning the master to midpoint for 50% gain vs. unplugging the wire and defaulting to 40% gain. With the master at midpoint there should be a slightly greater deflection with the wire plugged in vs. unplugged. This is exactly what happened in the video.

By the way, I'm surprised at how little total deflection was evident in the video. I think mine are deflecting quite a bit more but other factors can influence this.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 03:31 PM
Rick
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Originally Posted by lud View Post
Plug and play this product certainly is not - I'm disapointed in it's inability to independently set between 2d/3d without Tx programming /pc interface. - it only needed a micro switch /jumper.
It is possible to set this up with only a 4ch radio although I would agree it works best with 2 channels available with a 3 pos switch and a knob.

With a 4 channel you would have to plug the mode wire into another channel temporarily to access the "switch menu". This provides access to set the default mode to 2D or 3D, reset trims and level. Then the servos can be plugged in normally for flight. Once set, these values are remembered so it is only necessary to do this during the initial setup and tuning. Not exactly convenient but possible.

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Originally Posted by lud View Post
Trying to program my TX to have this setup on 2 switches has proved beyond my meagre IQ and not haing a 3 ways switch means guess work basically in trying to set it up (I followed trying mixes but to be honest nothing seemed to change)
What channels and switches do you have available?

With 2 channels and a two position switch on each the simplest setup is to plug mode into one channel and gain into the other. Then one switch turns Guardian on/off (gain zero or max) and the other channel switches 2D/3D.

Another good option is to use the mode channel to turn a mode on and off, the other mode would not be available. The gain channel then can be used to set high and low gain values. This is a good option for hovering aircraft where a lower gain may be needed for faster flying but 2D mode is unnecessary. This can be achieved with the same setup just by adjusting the travel limits in the transmitter.

No mixes are needed for either of these.
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Last edited by choochoo22; Jan 21, 2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Add another option
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:52 PM
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It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd cripple the unit if you're not using a master gain control. If true, it means that I could possibly have a situation where the gain pots were maxed out and still not have full stabilization.

I could forgo the flaperons I suppose and free up a channel for gain until my 7-channel receiver gets here from Hobby King.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:00 PM
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The model I wish to put one of these in requires 8 channels just for the plane! where would I plug the guardian in at? I only have 8 channel receivers I am a poor man!
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:25 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd cripple the unit if you're not using a master gain control. If true, it means that I could possibly have a situation where the gain pots were maxed out and still not have full stabilization.
I don't think you will find that to be a problem in practice. Most models can't use the maximum gain on all channels because it induces oscillation, it's mainly useful for hovering. Half of the maximum gain should give all the stabilization you need for most sport flying.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:29 PM
Rick
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Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
The model I wish to put one of these in requires 8 channels just for the plane! where would I plug the guardian in at? I only have 8 channel receivers I am a poor man!
As described earlier, it is possible to plug the Guardian in somewhere to set it up then do without Guardian control channels in flight. Also, you may be able to use a Y to free up a channel in some cases, like two aileron or flap servos for instance.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:02 PM
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[QUOTE=choochoo22;23883574]It is possible to set this up with only a 4ch radio although I would agree it works best with 2 channels available with a 3 pos switch and a knob

No need for a 3 Pos switch.

With 2 Ch's available I plug the Mode into a 2 pos switch controlled channel giving me a 2D or 3D choice and the Gain is plugged into a Pot/slider controlled channel giving me OFF or 100% or 200% of the pots depending on whom to believe.

If only one free channel, I have chosen to set the Guardian to 2D default and stick the Gain into that channel controlled with a pot/slider giving me OFF or whatever % of the pots setting.

Both work very well.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
458.00 - 758.00? this is the same price?
Price is 88 dollars without the gps. 149 incluiding the gps device.
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