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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
I just wish it was as easy as my NAZA just plug it in and it works!. I bought 2 Guardians and they are still in their packages. After reading all this complicated thread I have chosen not to use the Guardian. I will instead use a ordinary gyro or even 2 on my planes. This thing is far too complicated for the average user. I will post both my new Guardians in the forum for sale section
It really is easy to setup and use. It is a simple 3 axis rate gyro in 3D if heading hold is turned off. In 2D mode you have the ability to take advanatage of wing leveling. I can fly 16 oz. foamies on days when the wind is blowing 20 plus mph. My first two were installed without getting too carried away with minutia of the options. Too much confusion around switch gestures and gain control.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
After reading all this complicated thread I have chosen not to use the Guardian.
It's not that bad and it's performance is impressive. There are some posters that sure try to make it seem complicated.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
It really is easy to setup and use. It is a simple 3 axis rate gyro in 3D if heading hold is turned off. In 2D mode you have the ability to take advantage of wing leveling. I can fly 16 oz. foamies on days when the wind is blowing 20 plus mph. My first two were installed without getting too carried away with minutia of the options. Too much confusion around switch gestures and gain control.
You ain't kidding! The thread reminds me of the KK boards for quad copters!. That's why I got a NAZA I just want everything to work so I can have fun flying. I don't like to do settings adjustments write code etc. I wanted the Guardian for 2D flying only. It sounded like what I was looking for. But if I have to spend all my time making adjustments I don't want one. I wanted something that would work with basic factory settings plug and play so to speak. Well, I guess I jumped the gun by buying two of these Guardians along with all the extras. I will see if they sell in the classified section.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Could someone who is in the "200%" camp, and this includes ET as they have said it more than once, tell me when the pots and master are maxed you get 200% of what, exactly?
OK. 200% is the RANGE of master gain adjustment. From -100% to +100%, a RANGE of 200%. The master gain maxed (at +100% or 200% of the RANGE) means you have the Guardian pot settings as your gain. Gain cannot be higher than the pot settings. Master Gain can only reduce gain from the pot settings.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by t.edwards View Post
OK. 200% is the RANGE of master gain adjustment. From -100% to +100%, a RANGE of 200%. The master gain maxed (at +100% or 200% of the RANGE) means you have the Guardian pot settings as your gain. Gain cannot be higher than the pot settings. Master Gain can only reduce gain from the pot settings.
Amen!
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Page 7 of the manual: "If no connection is made to Guardian's gain input, a 40% Overall gain will be used."

If full pots and master at max give 200% (per ET), and no connection yields 40% (per ET), then no connection produces only 20% of maximum available gain even when the pots are maxed. This seems pretty weak.
OKay, I'm sure you are refering to an old version of the manual since I know that the old manual used the 40% overall gain as reference before, assuming that the Master Gain range is 0%-50%-100%. Later, in the Ver 1.7 Manual (which you can download from the ET site), it changed that into 100% Overall Gain, assuming that the Master Gain ranges are 0%-100%-200%.

These percentage values are really what confused things. Maybe if we use the servo pulse as the reference, it will be less confusing and more standard. So, with the Master Gain at servo pulse=1.1ms, the resulting gyro gain is the pot gain x 0; at servo pulse=1.5ms, the resulting gyro gain is the pot gain x 1; at servo pulse=1.9ms, the resulting gyro gain is the pot gain x 2.

The above is my complete understanding of what is stated in the manual.

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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Your logic doesn't work. The master gain simply turns down the gain settings of the pots. At wide open or full clockwise position your Guardian has 100% of your pot settings. Turn the Master Gain lower reduces the pot gains. It does not increase individual pots gains greater than pot settings.
Actually, my logic works and that has been how I've been flying my test plane and yes, it increases the resulting gyro gains, higher than the pot settings. Just a while back I even wired my Master Gain so to confirm that as I disconnect the Master Gain, the aileron deflection is reduced and when I reconnected the Master Gain while maxed out, the aileron will deflect more. And here's more... when I reconnect the Master Gain while it is at mid-point, there is only some minute movement but not as much deflection as when it is maxed out.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
OKay, I'm sure you are refering to an old version of the manual since I know that the old manual used the 40% overall gain as reference before, assuming that the Master Gain range is 0%-50%-100%. Later, in the Ver 1.7 Manual (which you can download from the ET site), it changed that into 100% Overall Gain, assuming that the Master Gain ranges are 0%-100%-200%.

These percentage values are really what confused things. Maybe if we use the servo pulse as the reference, it will be less confusing and more standard. So, with the Master Gain at servo pulse=1.1ms, the resulting gyro gain is the pot gain x 0; at servo pulse=1.5ms, the resulting gyro gain is the pot gain x 1; at servo pulse=1.9ms, the resulting gyro gain is the pot gain x 2.

The above is my complete understanding of what is stated in the manual.



Actually, my logic works and that has been how I've been flying my test plane and yes, it increases the resulting gyro gains, higher than the pot settings. Just a while back I even wired my Master Gain so to confirm that as I disconnect the Master Gain, the aileron deflection is reduced and when I reconnected the Master Gain while maxed out, the aileron will deflect more. And here's more... when I reconnect the Master Gain while it is at mid-point, there is only some minute movement but not as much deflection as when it is maxed out.
I think you have a vivid imagination. The Master Gain is not an amplifier.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Andre Germain View Post
Greetings,

I have an Airfield 64mm F18 which I have configured as elevon (ailerons used as flaps) on a Turnigy 9X, working fine for 2 years. I then removed the elevon feature, installed the 2D-3D (new from HK, first time used, recent batch [waited since August 2012]) and enabled the Eagletree elevon mode. Everything works fine except that inexplicably every minute or so, one of the surfaces (elevator) pulses about 2 second intervals to near maximum, and this goes on for about 20 seconds, then it stops. I doubt it's the receiver or transmitter as they worked fine when the 2D-3D was not in circuit.

Firmware 1.17, Data recorder 10.43

Cheers
Do you happen to have the Master Gain wire just floating and not connected? I am just wondering since I just also noticed that when I had my Master Gain wire disconnected and an extension cable was attached, it seems to catch some noise and everytime I go near or touch it, it will cause the aileron to pulse in 1 or 2 second interval. That's when I remember reading your post. If this is not the case, then pls disregard.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I think you have a vivid imagination. The Master Gain is not an amplifier.
I'm sorry but noone is talking about amplifiers.

However, it is clearly stated in the manual (both in the old and new versions) that the Master Gain multiplies the individual gains, and it says- "The Master Gain multiplies the individual Pitch/Roll/Yaw gains and serves as a way to easily tune all three." .
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
I'm sorry but noone is talking about amplifiers.

However, it is clearly stated in the manual (both in the old and new versions) that the Master Gain multiplies the individual gains, and it says- "The Master Gain multiplies the individual Pitch/Roll/Yaw gains and serves as a way to easily tune all three." .
I have never seen the behavior. The manual is ripe with misuses of language. The master gain only attenuates. It does not amplify the individual pot gain beyond the individual pot settings.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:47 PM
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"Note: If the individual axis gain dials are set to lower values, the effect of the Overall Gain knob will be reduced, and vice versa."

Now. What is the numbers obsession? You need to know the -100, 0, +100 on your tx so you can get the modes and master gain responding correctly.

Beyond that, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?

Need more gain? Turn it up. Want less? Turn it down.

Think there's a magic gain number you need to have?

I don't understand the obsessing.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I have never seen the behavior. The manual is ripe with misuses of language. The master gain only attenuates. It does not amplify the individual pot gain beyond the individual pot settings when the Master Gain is disconnected.
Well, let me try for the last time and show you a video of what I did earlier to confirm that with the Master Gain at max, the resulting gain is increased and that when the Master Gain is at mid point, the resulting gain is almost the same as the pot settings. Here's the video:
GuardianMaterGain (2 min 27 sec)


No big deal really as everything is just working perfect for me based on the manual.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Page 7 of the manual: "If no connection is made to Guardian's gain input, a 40% Overall gain will be used."
...
Part of the confusion may come from different versions of the manual giving different numbers, possibly reflecting changes made in different versions of the Guardian firmware.

I have seen some older versions of the manual mention this 40% figure.
But later versions of the manual (like version 1.7, which I saw on Nov. 2012 and came with my Guardian) use a 100% figure (in place of the 40%) on page 7.

This change from 40% to 100% could be just a clarification/correction, or may in fact reflect different versions of the firmware doing different things (possibly how Guardian reacts to an unconnected gain channel).

As for myself, I only have a 5 channel Tx, so the gain channel stays unconnected by necessity.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
Well, let me try for the last time and show you a video of what I did earlier to confirm that with the Master Gain at max, the resulting gain is increased and that when the Master Gain is at mid point, the resulting gain is almost the same as the pot settings. Here's the video:
http://youtu.be/viwUTM-omC0

No big deal really as everything is just working perfect for me based on the manual.
I am glad it works for you.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 09:59 PM
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[QUOTE=Prof100;23874770]
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Originally Posted by t.edwards View Post
I'm not sure how you come up with that. Max master gain gives you the pot setting gain. The master gain can only reduce gain from the pot setting.

Disconnect the master gain and set the pots to suit. Hook up and max out the master gain and you have the same gain you did with it dis-connected.

Max available gain is Guardians' pot setting. Master gain can only reduce it.[/QUOTE]


That's my understanding as well. Anything else would give you a headache to keep track of as you use the Guardian.
Right or wrong, the idea of multiplying the gain by up to 200% is mentioned in certain versions of the Guardian manual itself. In page 7 of one version (v1.7, which I got in Nov. 2012), there is this statement about the Master Gain control:
"~0% to 100% (1.9ms servo pulse, 200% Overall Gain):"

I am guessing that the 200% is 200% compared to a middle of the road 1.5ms servo pulse.

It sounds like not having a gain channel (Ch. 6) on my Tx is simplifying things for me quite a bit.
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