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Old Apr 06, 2012, 08:58 AM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,812 Posts
Guardian 2D/3D flight report Lil-Banchee

What a terrible morning to go flying. Solid overcast ,high humidity, winds 10 to 15 MPH cool and feels like rain. Went flying anyway and had a great morning.

3D mode ,Knife Edge passes with half of a KE loop used as turn arounds 90 degrees to the wind ,five in a row and all looked great. Flipped Guardian off and tried 5 more and they looked awful. The entries were good but then wind gust would blow it of course and I would either overcorrect with elevator or go the wrong way with elevator or just be to slow.

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this kind of wind the Lil Banchee use to stay in the vehicle, remember this thing is just barely over 7 oz. per sq.ft. wing loading and without stabilization gets blow around in gusty winds to the point that while I can fly it I hate the pucker factor when it comes to landing it. All of the landing this morning were picture perfect with very little effort on my part.

Approximately 32 months as a Hanger Queen amassing a total of 24 flights pre Guardian and now 44 addational flights in just over two weeks.

Charles
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Old Apr 06, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Joined Nov 2003
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NitroCharged,
Quote:
Well, I went to put in my pre-order and everything was going fine until I hit the shipping cost... $50 BUCKS!!!???!!
We offer 3 international shipping methods on our website. Our airmail shipping to Australia is $15. That's the second option from the top when selecting shipping method. Re AU dealers, please see our dealer list here.

cactus,
Quote:
I noticed you power the unit through the throttle channel from the Rx. Could we use a Y cable in this instance to power the unit from UBEC?
Yes, for models with higher servo draw, the two options are to run a male-male servo wire (with signal wire disconnected) from the Aux servo output of the Guardian to your UBEC or a spare channel. Or, if you are using the Aux servo output, a simple Y cable can be used (again with the signal wire disconnected).

everydayflyer,
Quote:
Now a really customer friendly vendor's site would check and see that I have 3 units prepaided / preordered and combine them and issue credit / refund for one of the shipping charges.
Yes, multiple orders received from customers before the first order has shipped are combined into one shipment, and the extra shipping cost is credited.
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Old Apr 06, 2012, 08:13 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
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Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
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yah.... and if I don't spend 50 bucks on shipping you are quite clear on "if it gets lost - bad luck".....

Will these be listing on Hobby King like your other stuff? 6 bucks registered shipping to me would be nice!
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Old Apr 08, 2012, 10:55 PM
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United States, CA, Lancaster
Joined Jan 2009
1,260 Posts
Side slip sensing

On tailless planes with drag rudders could this be used to sense side-slip? Most three axis gyro cannot sense this without additional sensing elements. Tailless planes will have a yaw wobble or side-slip because a gyro it cannot detecting its orientation to airstream.

Been thinking of this circuit for side-slip sensing http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...4&d=1333944940. R4 is the side-slip fin and V2 is a simulated rudder input from the receiver. R4 corrects for side-slip. The output from this circuit would go into a gyro to prevent oscillations.
I don't think the accelerometers inside the Guardian could detect this slide-slip but can control oscillations. Any thoughts?

Sure wish that Eagletree would develop a sensor that would incorporate airspeed, gyro stabilization and Alpha/Beta (AoA). It seems they have all the elements to develop a real good IMU.

Thanks
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 07:18 AM
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Italy, Lazio, Rome
Joined Aug 2011
51 Posts
Quads will be supported also by the Guardian Expander?

Thanks.
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Joined Mar 2009
216 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by p901P901 View Post
On tailless planes with drag rudders could this be used to sense side-slip? Most three axis gyro cannot sense this without additional sensing elements. Tailless planes will have a yaw wobble or side-slip because a gyro it cannot detecting its orientation to airstream.

Been thinking of this circuit for side-slip sensing http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...4&d=1333944940. R4 is the side-slip fin and V2 is a simulated rudder input from the receiver. R4 corrects for side-slip. The output from this circuit would go into a gyro to prevent oscillations.
I don't think the accelerometers inside the Guardian could detect this slide-slip but can control oscillations. Any thoughts?

Sure wish that Eagletree would develop a sensor that would incorporate airspeed, gyro stabilization and Alpha/Beta (AoA). It seems they have all the elements to develop a real good IMU.

Thanks

Interesting thoughts. An accelerometer can detect lateral acceleration, but not sideslip. On the other hand, sideslip usually results in a side force on the airframe, which in turn causes a lateral acceleration. So in an indirect way, the accelerometer senses sideslip. Whether this indirect measurement satisfies your control system needs is still up for grabs.

Often times an indirect measurement is good enough. For instance, if an airplane responds strongly to sideslip by rolling ("dihedral effect"), then a roll rate gyro may be a sufficient sideslip sensor. In that case, one might send the corrective signal from the roll rate gyro to the rudder servo rather than to the aileron.

In the case of the tailless airplane, the yaw wobble that you describe will show up as a yaw rate and the existing yaw rate gyro will pick that up. The problem from there is whether your drag rudders have sufficient control authority to damp out the wobble.

Dick
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 12:16 PM
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United States, CA, Lancaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otrcman View Post
Interesting thoughts. An accelerometer can detect lateral acceleration, but not sideslip. On the other hand, sideslip usually results in a side force on the airframe, which in turn causes a lateral acceleration. So in an indirect way, the accelerometer senses sideslip. Whether this indirect measurement satisfies your control system needs is still up for grabs.

Often times an indirect measurement is good enough. For instance, if an airplane responds strongly to sideslip by rolling ("dihedral effect"), then a roll rate gyro may be a sufficient sideslip sensor. In that case, one might send the corrective signal from the roll rate gyro to the rudder servo rather than to the aileron.

In the case of the tailless airplane, the yaw wobble that you describe will show up as a yaw rate and the existing yaw rate gyro will pick that up. The problem from there is whether your drag rudders have sufficient control authority to damp out the wobble.

Dick
Yes the Guardian could be used, but sure would like to see the software that will be used. If this is used on quads then there will be mixing.
The drag rudders will need to be sized correctly to slow possible responce time drive problems. Hopefully the software would do this as well.
I would also need to record the data for parameter adjustments.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 03:03 AM
Registered User
New Zealand, Wellington, Upper Hutt
Joined Feb 2011
11 Posts
I have pre-ordered a Guardian 2D/3D box.

Any update on the release date of this unit?

Cheers,
Brian
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 04:52 PM
FPV junkie
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United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,390 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamhead19 View Post
I have pre-ordered a Guardian 2D/3D box.

Any update on the release date of this unit?

Cheers,
Brian
should be very soon now...
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 01:17 PM
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Joined Nov 2003
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NitroCharged,
Quote:
Will these be listing on Hobby King like your other stuff?
I believe they will be.

p901P901, let me get back to you on the side-slip question.

alexvan,
Quote:
Quads will be supported also by the Guardian Expander?
We're looking into this.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 05:09 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2012
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Knobs or switches

I have a spectrum 6i. It has no knobs that would affect the unit, however it has several switches. Can a switch such as Gear, Aux, Flaps, or one of the dual rate switches be used
to affect the gain or switch the mode of the unit, or even turn it on and off. These are two position switches.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 06:26 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,812 Posts
If you are not using Flaperon mix. in the Trans. then you can use the 3 position. (flaps) switch for 2D / Off / 3D. If Flaperons is enabled (at least in a DX7) then you can not use the Flap switch but you can use the Gear Switch but that only give you the choice of two out of the three flight modes.

You will not have in flight gain but that is really not a big deal IMO.

I had Flaperons enabled in the DX7 for the duel ail. servos in the Lil-Banchee for the first Guardian flights and only had 2D and 3D but then made and installed a Y-harness so that I could turn off Flaperon mix and use the 3 pos. switch for the Guardian.

There is a possible solution to this problem but not sure if it will become a reality or not.

Charles
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 07:51 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Ridgecrest
Joined Dec 2011
36 Posts
The DX6i has only a two position switch for flaps so it will only be able to select two states for the Guardian. The rate switches only affect the range on the proportional channels and can't be used to control the Guardian.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 08:01 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,099 Posts
It would take quite a bit of fiddling with mixes and travel but I wonder if it might be possible to mix the 2 pos flap channel into the 2 pos gear channel (or reverse) and achieve a 3 or even 4 state gain/mode control?
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 09:18 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,099 Posts
First, this approach will only work if both gear and flap channels are used for nothing else, only stabilizer control.

On my DX8 I was able to set up the following control, the stabilizer control would be plugged into the gear channel. This approach should work on many other radios as well, I think the 6i has this capability:

GS=Gear Switch, FS=Flap Switch

G F Gear(stabilizer control)
S S Output

0 0 50% (off)
1 0 -100% (2D)
1 1 -50% (2D half rate)
0 1 +100% (3D)

The settings are Gear Travel position 0=50% 1=100%, Flap travel unchanged. Mix Flap>gear 0= -100% 1= 0%

The polarity and % could be tweaked to suit. Awkward but doable. You could instead mix gear to flaps if the switch locations on your transmitter suit you better.
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Last edited by choochoo22; Apr 12, 2012 at 09:26 PM.
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