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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:44 PM
Toy Flyer
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Flying Field, Work Bench
Joined Mar 2004
599 Posts
Available now at TowerHobbies

$72 delivered in three days from current stock at Tower, versus $63 (backordered) plus three week shipping from HK.

Fly safe, Glover
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:47 PM
2012 NZ Speedcup - 231 MPH
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New Zealand, Tasman, Richmond
Joined Mar 2006
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Not that I can see... Not until late November...
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:57 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glover View Post
$72 delivered in three days from current stock at Tower, versus $63 (backordered) plus three week shipping from HK.

Fly safe, Glover
When I look at Towerhobbies' web page on the Guardian 2d/3d
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCUCV&P=ML

I see:
Eagle Tree Systems Guardian 2D/3D Inertial Stabilizer
Stock Number LXCUCV
Retail Price‡ 74.99
Tower's Low Price $65.99
Stock Status (Estimated) Late Nov

I had put in a back order with Tower for this and asked them to send me an email when it became available. No email on shipping or availability yet.

Nov. 24, 2012 UPDATE: Tower still shows the Guardian at 2D/3D at $65.99 Stock Status (Estimated) Late Nov
But I also just got notified that my backorder just shipped.
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Last edited by flying-llama; Nov 24, 2012 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Just got ship notice.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:42 AM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,885 Posts
http://www.rctoys.com/rc-products/ET-GUARD-STAB.html

Appears in stock
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:39 AM
Toy Flyer
glover's Avatar
Flying Field, Work Bench
Joined Mar 2004
599 Posts
Delivery tomorrow

I placed my "backorder" with Tower on 11/03/2012, and it has been shipped with delivery scheduled for tomorrow. Too bad you folks did not place your order on 11/03/2012. All of the web browsing in the world is not the same thing as placing an order. Enjoy your holliday feast!

Fly safe, Glover
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:30 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,793 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glover View Post
I placed my "backorder" with Tower on 11/03/2012, and it has been shipped with delivery scheduled for tomorrow. Too bad you folks did not place your order on 11/03/2012. All of the web browsing in the world is not the same thing as placing an order. Enjoy your holliday feast!

Fly safe, Glover
Actually, I also did place a "backorder" with Tower, back in mid-October. But I have yet to hear from them.
My back-order was at a lower price (and with a coupon thrown in). Perhaps they are filling back-orders most recent first or highest price first.

Nov. 24, 2012 UPDATE: Tower still shows the Guardian at 2D/3D at $65.99 Stock Status (Estimated) Late Nov
But I also just got notified that my backorder just shipped.
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Last edited by flying-llama; Nov 24, 2012 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Just got shipping notice
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 12:19 PM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Yes, 3D can work also and on all 3 axes but you have to keep track of the current orientation which may be difficult in a plane. Of course you could always switch to 2D momentarily when you want to level it. It would be nice if ET would release specific gimbal firmware.
Not if the plane flies using 2D while the camera stays on target using 3D.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:14 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
Not if the plane flies using 2D while the camera stays on target using 3D.
The short version:
Guardian is constantly computing and correcting which way is down based on gravity. In 2D it can use this to hold a camera level but only at the sacrifice of heading-hold. 3d makes no attempt to hold anything level but with HH active works to hold each axis constant so the camera should stay level only if it started that way.

The longer version:
I hope to build a dedicated camera plane similar the the Exposure. Since the plane only uses elevator and rudder, it seemed like the Guardian should be able to manage those two channels and also a third channel on the roll axis to keep the camera level, independent of the plane. To test this theory, I Jerry-rigged a really rinky-dink testbed on a Slow Stick.

Among other things, it was necessary to disable heading-hold. In 2D mode the Guardian turns the plane by banking and this defeats the intended leveling of the camera. This setup works as intended but the plane lacks the ability to hold a course other than the usual trimming, not a fatal flaw.

I did not test this out but one way to achieve leveling and heading-hold would be to use 3D mode with HH enabled. In 3D each axis is independent so the rudder should keep the plane on course, the elevator keeps the attitude, and the servo on the aileron channel keeps the camera level. The difficulty here is that the Guardian will hold the camera in whatever position it was when 3D was activated, not necessarily level. Drift could be a problem, I haven't tested it. If the camera comes off level from any cause, one way to level it would be to switch to 2D to straighten everything out and then back to 3D. But it's hard to tell if the camera is off level by looking at it from the ground, the plane could be at considerable distance. And you can't count on 2D to have it level when you switch back to 3D because if is making course corrections it may have "banked" the camera.

Suggestions:
This could be made simpler and more effective if Eagle Tree provided a software switch to tell G to use the rudder to hold course and not the aileron, and/or other gimbal optimized firmware. What would be really nice is for the firmware to fly the plane normally using all three channels, and output a fourth signal on the aux channel to keep a camera level. Even nicer would be to use two channels for pitch and heading (rud or ail) and the other two channels for a 2 axis gimbal.

Therefore:
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Yes, 3D can work also and on all 3 axes but you have to keep track of the current orientation which may be difficult in a plane. Of course you could always switch to 2D momentarily when you want to level it. It would be nice if ET would release specific gimbal firmware.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:31 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Camarillo
Joined Jul 2012
367 Posts
If I use a 'Y' cable with my Flaps, I'll have two free Rx channels that I can use with a 3-position switch and Knob. That's what appears to be the minimum to support both Gain and Mode control on Guardian 2D/3D.

I also have one free Mix, so I could combine the 3-position switch with the knob to produce a combined signal on one Rx channel. That would free up one channel to run Flaps on two channels instead of the 'Y'.

I wonder why Eagle Tree doesn't support this kind of Guardian 2D/3D control on just one Rx channel?

Barry
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:02 AM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
2,776 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
The short version:
Guardian is constantly computing and correcting which way is down based on gravity. In 2D it can use this to hold a camera level but only at the sacrifice of heading-hold. 3d makes no attempt to hold anything level but with HH active works to hold each axis constant so the camera should stay level only if it started that way.

The longer version:
I hope to build a dedicated camera plane similar the the Exposure. Since the plane only uses elevator and rudder, it seemed like the Guardian should be able to manage those two channels and also a third channel on the roll axis to keep the camera level, independent of the plane. To test this theory, I Jerry-rigged a really rinky-dink testbed on a Slow Stick.

Among other things, it was necessary to disable heading-hold. In 2D mode the Guardian turns the plane by banking and this defeats the intended leveling of the camera. This setup works as intended but the plane lacks the ability to hold a course other than the usual trimming, not a fatal flaw.

I did not test this out but one way to achieve leveling and heading-hold would be to use 3D mode with HH enabled. In 3D each axis is independent so the rudder should keep the plane on course, the elevator keeps the attitude, and the servo on the aileron channel keeps the camera level. The difficulty here is that the Guardian will hold the camera in whatever position it was when 3D was activated, not necessarily level. Drift could be a problem, I haven't tested it. If the camera comes off level from any cause, one way to level it would be to switch to 2D to straighten everything out and then back to 3D. But it's hard to tell if the camera is off level by looking at it from the ground, the plane could be at considerable distance. And you can't count on 2D to have it level when you switch back to 3D because if is making course corrections it may have "banked" the camera.

Suggestions:
This could be made simpler and more effective if Eagle Tree provided a software switch to tell G to use the rudder to hold course and not the aileron, and/or other gimbal optimized firmware. What would be really nice is for the firmware to fly the plane normally using all three channels, and output a fourth signal on the aux channel to keep a camera level. Even nicer would be to use two channels for pitch and heading (rud or ail) and the other two channels for a 2 axis gimbal.

Therefore:
If the camera is on its own 3D stabilizer, then the camera could track a target independent of the plane's motion - you would simply use FPV pan/tilt to move the camera, until you find something interesting to film (typically, something on the ground), then you center the pan/tilt stick controlling the servos connected to the Guardian 3D camera stabilizer (the same stick which you just used to point the fpv camera at the ground target) - and then that 3D stabilized camera would continue filming that same ground target, no matter what the plane was doing - so long as the physical capabilities of the camera pan/tilt system to track that target aren't made impossible by the plane's position relative to the target, as it continues to fly abougt. To that end, adding a second Guardian 2D stabilizer for stabilizing the plane while filming makes a lot of sense. 2D for the plane, 3D for the camera - at least for me - as I'd want to track/film ground targets (3D) while the plane flies level (2D), and film (track too? any need to track a cloud?) clouds while the plane flies however.

Flying season's over here (snowing hard today) - so next week I'll put a camera stabilizing Guardian into my FPV car - and see what it's good for.
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Last edited by Tim Green; Nov 24, 2012 at 09:43 AM.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 07:25 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
If the camera is on its own 3D stabilizer, then the camera could track a target independent of the plane's motion - you would simply use FPV pan/tilt to move the camera, until you find something interesting to film (typically, something on the ground), then you center the pan/tilt stick controlling the servos connected to the Guardian 3D camera stabilizer (the same stick which you just used to point the fpv camera at the ground target) - and then that 3D stabilized camera would continue filming that same ground target, no matter what the plane was doing - so long as the physical capabilities of the camera pan/tilt system to track that target aren't made impossible by the plane's position relative to the target, as it continues to fly abougt. To that end, adding a second Guardian 2D stabilizer for stabilizing the plane while filming makes a lot of sense. 2D for the plane, 3D for the camera - at least for me - as I'd want to track/film ground targets (3D) while the plane flies level (2D), and film (track too? any need to track a cloud?) clouds while the plane flies however.

Flying season's over here (snowing hard today) - so next week I'll put a camera stabilizing Guardian into my FPV car - and see what it's good for.
Sure, you can do all of that, but not me. A 3 axis gimbal, 2 Guardians, digital servos, and an FPV setup. Even with a cheap airframe this could easily top $1000 ready to fly and require two pilots to fly it safely. This is way beyond my budget, commitment, or needs. A single Guardian can stabilize a simple aircraft and one gimbal axis. With appropriate firmware, it could handle the aircraft and two axis gimbal. This should provide nice smooth video and level stills anywhere I can fly line-of-sight.

By the way, even if you did all that, it still wouldn't track a target. That requires inputs for ground speed and altitude and a complex algorithm which would still be faulty if the target was not at the takeoff altitude. The best you could get from a 2 Guardian setup and 3 axis gimbal is to point the camera along a steady vector eg: camera level to horizon, 30 azimuth, 20 down, independent of aircraft motion within limits.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:55 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,793 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flying-llama View Post
Actually, I also did place a "backorder" with Tower, back in mid-October. But I have yet to hear from them.
My back-order was at a lower price (and with a coupon thrown in). ...
Nov. 24, 2012 update: Tower still shows the Guardian at 2D/3D at $65.99 Stock Status (Estimated) Late Nov
But I also just got notified that my backorder just shipped.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 09:22 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2007
28 Posts
Receiver killer

I lost signal from my receiver when I hooked up the Guardian. All had been working fine before hand.

However when the plane was moved (roll or pitch) the servos functioned yet the tx would not control the servos. Thus the Guardian was controlling the servos but the tx could not. Now when I test the receiver output signal to the servos I get 0 micro second pulses only. When I set the rx up in the simplest form ie. battery to rx and one servo connected and no Guardian, the rx still issues no signal.

I can only conclude that the Guardian must have destroyed my receiver. Has anyone else experienced this?b
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Last edited by thaus; Nov 25, 2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:51 AM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,885 Posts
If 2.4 try rebind.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 11:14 AM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
2,776 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Sure, you can do all of that, but not me. A 3 axis gimbal, 2 Guardians, digital servos, and an FPV setup. Even with a cheap airframe this could easily top $1000 ready to fly and require two pilots to fly it safely. This is way beyond my budget, commitment, or needs. A single Guardian can stabilize a simple aircraft and one gimbal axis. With appropriate firmware, it could handle the aircraft and two axis gimbal. This should provide nice smooth video and level stills anywhere I can fly line-of-sight.

By the way, even if you did all that, it still wouldn't track a target. That requires inputs for ground speed and altitude and a complex algorithm which would still be faulty if the target was not at the takeoff altitude. The best you could get from a 2 Guardian setup and 3 axis gimbal is to point the camera along a steady vector eg: camera level to horizon, 30 azimuth, 20 down, independent of aircraft motion within limits.
Hmmm - $1000 - maybe cheaper than that. You need a stabilizer, like a Guardian, or an FY-30A, and a pan/tilt mechanism with servos. The Guardian is $75, and pan/tilt mechanisms can be had at readymaderc for as low as $30.

Hopefully, you already have extra channels on your receiver and transmitter, else add that to the cost as well.

So, we're looking at $105 to stabilize your camera independent of your platform vehicle (car, plane, quadcopter, etc), as it's bumping about.

People do this in quadrotors today - it's quite fascinating to see the target video in the display remain steady while various parts of the quadrotor frame visible at the edges of the picture are jumping about.
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