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Old Nov 03, 2012, 11:05 AM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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"I guess that barbecue warning is still stuck in my throat. Sorry!" Galand,My first thought when reading this is that it stems from the famous MacDonald's case. As I recall an award was made to an individual who drove away with a cup wedged between her thighs & spilt coffee there sustaining burns. The case was lost because there was no warning label that the coffee was hot. My understanding is that there was no appeal, so we are stuck with the precedent. It seems crazy to me that it could have been decided that an adult would NOT know that; but there you are.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 12:23 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WF Pilot View Post
What about expo? Do you zero out expo in 2D and 3D mode??

Morten
Guardian has no effect on expo and vice versa, use it or don't.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 12:28 PM
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Long Island, NY
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
Ah yes. I see your points, but remember...the AMA is in the business of insuring people. Avoiding liability is at the core of their guidelines. I'll end it here.
Okay, peace!
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Galand's Avatar
Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Guardian has no effect on expo and vice versa, use it or don't.
So, if for instance, I select 50% dual rate low, then the Guardian input will only use 50% of the available travel. Right?
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 12:35 PM
Registered User
United States, KY, Madisonville
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Guardian has no effect on expo and vice versa, use it or don't.
I set up expo on a switch so I can use it when Guardian is set to off.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 01:24 PM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
909 Posts
Expo with Guardian

I will have to verify, but my recollection from flying with/without expo is that high expo in a XMTR and a large centering box could result in some odd effects; i.e., the stick has to be moved more for the XMTR to send a signal indicating a displacement that just exceeds the centering box. Then, as the stick is moved more, there is, in effect, less expo between the XMTR, Guardian, and the control surfaces.

For example, I have a Guardian in a rather agile 3D plane where the plane has far greater capacity than the pilot. Normally, I have between 50 and 65% expo on the very highest 3D rates. With the Guardian in 3D mode, I found reduced travel, soft around neutral stick, then mostly linear beyond the center box (set to 4 or 5, forget which, at this point.) Not really a problem, but something of which a pilot should be cognizant.

As stated by another poster, I have my DR/expo enabled when Guardian is turned OFF. I will try an experiment tomorrow, WX permitting, and report back.

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Guardian has no effect on expo and vice versa, use it or don't.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 01:49 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
So, if for instance, I select 50% dual rate low, then the Guardian input will only use 50% of the available travel. Right?
No. The expo will affect how the plane responds to your stick inputs. The guardian is further down the pipeline and is not constrained by the expo settings. Think kicking a ball(Tx) vs knee jerk(Guardian) in human terms.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 02:33 PM
GOTTA FLY STRIGHT UP
WILLIAM M's Avatar
United States, FL, Lake City
Joined Jun 2012
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodlestonian View Post
It sounds like you've got a mix set up in your tx that's affecting everything.

Set up a clean model. Bind your model to that.
Make very sure again that your servos are plugged into the right sockets in tour rx.

Make sure one of the servo plugs isn't upside down

AJ

thanks for the input. I did have expo on
I changed to a new clean model in the tx. it only showed a smaller amount of ail deflection.

then I put in the new ET 2D3D that just came today it worked perfect with the tx on the clean plane.

now I will put the old one back in and reset to factory settings and see what it does.
then I will Know if I have junk or what!

Bill
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 06:40 PM
dro56595@bigpo's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Williamtown RAAF
Joined Aug 2008
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Well, the unit works as advertised in my 70mm F-16 EDF. Completed three flights, dialling down the gain each time by a little - could still come down some more as I feel it's still fighting me in 2D mode more than I'd like.

Put her into some weird attitudes then let go the sticks - perfect recovery every time. Was very windy with a bit of turbulence and rotor action from a line of trees parallel to the runway. Cool to watch the unit punch through, making little corrections with each gust and shear.

Some more fine-tuning as she'll be sweet. I fear it will make me a bit lazy!

Cheers,

Dan.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 09:49 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
1,628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
So, if for instance, I select 50% dual rate low, then the Guardian input will only use 50% of the available travel. Right?
If Guardian is off, it passes through your expo and rates as if it weren't there, you can set them as you always have.

If Guardian is on, your transmitter settings (expo & rates) influence the commands you are sending to the Guardian. Guardian is sending its own signals to the plane which are not subject to your transmitter expo or travel limit settings. You are not commanding the control surfaces directly, you are telling Guardian what you want the plane to do and it passes on servo signals to achieve that behavior.

For example; With Guardian off and no expo, 25% stick should yield 25% of your travel limit. With expo 25% stick may yield perhaps 15% of your travel limit depending on your expo setting. With Guardian in 3D direct and no expo, 25% stick should yield 25% of your maximum roll rate. Guardian will use whatever surface deflection it needs to achieve that rate. With expo, 25% stick should yield perhaps 15% of your maximum roll rate. Again using whatever deflection needed to achieve that and always subject to your plane's aerodynamic ability to comply. This sounds complicated but in flight it feels like expo works like it always did but how you got there is a bit different.

It might be useful to look at what happens at the extreme. Guardian off, at 100% rate with or without expo, 100% stick yields 100% of your travel limit. With Guardian in 3D direct, 100% stick should yield 100% of your maximum roll rate set in Guardian by software or menu. This defaults to 1 roll/sec. If your plane is capable of 2 rolls/sec, Guardian would be using only partial deflection to achieve 1 roll/sec. If your plane is capable of only 1/2 roll/sec, Guardian would have maxed out its servo travel before you reached full stick trying to make the plane roll as fast as possible. This will work out best if max roll in Guardian settings is close to the max roll of the plane. Or you could intentionally lower the max roll rate to tame a plane that is particularly sensitive on roll. I don't think my brain will respond well to roll rates much beyond 1/sec regardless of what the plane can do. Your mileage may vary.

To go back to your original question, in 3D direct, expo or no, with a 50% travel limit. Full stick will command Guardian to roll the plane at half its max rate setting. It will use whatever deflection it needs to do that, not necessarily 50%. It will, however, roll the plane at half the rate it would use at high rate, 100%. To the pilot the distinction may be moot. At low rate it will roll slower than at high rate, just like always.

Complicated answer to a simple question, sorry.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 12:55 AM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,790 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dro56595@bigpo View Post
Well, the unit works as advertised in my 70mm F-16 EDF. Completed three flights, dialling down the gain each time by a little - could still come down some more as I feel it's still fighting me in 2D mode more than I'd like.

Put her into some weird attitudes then let go the sticks - perfect recovery every time. Was very windy with a bit of turbulence and rotor action from a line of trees parallel to the runway. Cool to watch the unit punch through, making little corrections with each gust and shear.

Some more fine-tuning as she'll be sweet. I fear it will make me a bit lazy!

Cheers,

Dan.
Are you using 2D limited to the centre 5degrees (forget how they word the tick box)??
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 01:01 AM
dro56595@bigpo's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Williamtown RAAF
Joined Aug 2008
2,243 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
Are you using 2D limited to the centre 5degrees (forget how they word the tick box)??
Hmmm. Will have to check that later. Sunday afternoon here and I've left all my domestic chores 'till the last minute. Unless I won the $20M lottery last night, I'd better be ready for work next week
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 06:24 AM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,363 Posts
Quote:
Well, the unit works as advertised in my 70mm F-16 EDF. Completed three flights, dialling down the gain each time by a little - could still come down some more as I feel it's still fighting me in 2D mode more than I'd like.
I believe that if you will fly in 3D mode and only use 2D as an emergency recovery mode you will enjoy the rseults a lot more.

2D does not feel natital because it is an auto pilot and when auto pilot is turned on it resist input from the pilot. You can tweak the size of the box and the level of contriol the Guardian has but much simplier to just use 3D and enjoy.


Charles
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 06:32 AM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,363 Posts
Anyone else notice how quite it has been on futhure developments? No word on camera,quad or heli software in what seems like a very long while.

It seems like there is a new / rebranded modified 3axis FBL unit every couple of weeks.
I really want one with an emergency recovery mode like HeliCommand but without the $450 price tag.

Just released is a Ikon FBL that has auto selfleveling (switchable) however it lacks the auto collective management during emergency recovery. Not really al that big of a deal and cost 1/2 of HC unit.




Charles
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 09:27 AM
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Galand's Avatar
Long Island, NY
Joined May 2010
1,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
If Guardian is off, it passes through your expo and rates as if it weren't there, you can set them as you always have.

Complicated answer to a simple question, sorry.
Thanks for the explanation.
I was surprised by the answer from DavidN, because I could have sworn that with an FY-20A and dual rates flipped to 50%, my control surfaces responded less "enthousiastically" than at full rates when test-wiggling the model.
So net/net, setting dual rates will affect the surface travel, independently wether the input comes from the sticks or from the Guardian. Right?
Or am I still not getting it?
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