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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Joined Jul 2007
770 Posts
Has anyone had a problem where the Guardian just stops powering up?
I'm really hoping that its some easy fix

My first guardian refused to work, then the USB plug detatched (first waste of money)
I bought another one, had the same problem of it not working ( Very little corrective input)
Then one day I was having a look at the problem and without me changing anything, it
started working in 3d headlock mode.
2d mode was wrong with it making the servos move to far ( But working ok in 3d mode)

I then adjusted the gain and tested and powered down.

At the field it just refused to turn on even though I had just had it turned on and plugged into the comp.

If this thing is screwed then that is 2 pieces of junk from Eagletree that I now have.
Not to mention another guy in the club was using one in 2d mode fine for a few flights
then with no warning it failed to center the servo and was very hard to get down safely.
If this cant be fixed then thats 3 dodgy guardians out of 3 that Ive seen.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Joined Sep 2007
643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gritty View Post
Hey guys, I need a little help.

The 2D/3D unit works fine, but my problem is that I can't seem to get it set to level while on the bench. What I am doing is putting a bubble level on the stabilizer and raising the rear of the plane until the bubble level indicates that the stab is level. Then I reset the 2D/3D unit for level.

When I am flying the plane with the 2D/3D off and the plane is flying level, I then engage the 2D/3D and the plane wants to pitch down The rudder and ailerons appear to be holding their position.

So, how is best way to ensure the plane is level on the bench to be able to set the 2D/3D to read this position?

Also, I notice that when the 2D/3D unit is engaged (2D position), the controls seem to be more sluggish. When not engaged, I move the controls a little bit and plane responds right away. When engaged, I need to move the controls much further and almost to full position before the plane responds. On the ground, I can see that moving the controls the planes control surfaces appear to go to full deflection just as when the 2D/3D unit is disengaged. Appears similar to like having a lot of expo turned on.

Any suggestions?

Thank you,

Gritty
In normal flight the tail is often quite a bit lower than you think. I have a MPX Acromaster and had the same issue. It has symmetric airfoil wings and therefore needs an angle of attack to produce lift. The tail is down a few degrees. If you are flying noticeably downward. Try lowering the tail a full 25 mm and reset the Guardian. It is much nicer to have the plane fly upward and adjust that than downward (since it is not trying to crash). Bring a block to put the tail on at the field and progressively lower it, resetting each time until you have what you want. I leave mine in a very slight climb because I want the plane to rise slowly since it has no barometric sensor and does not know its altitude.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:35 PM
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USA, AL, Huntsville
Joined Apr 2007
13 Posts
Mine is doing similar things. Works fair in 3D mode, wants to ad a lot of UP elevator, have to hold it down.
BUT, in 2D MODE, you better have yur finger on the switch!
It'll wreck you if you're not 3 mistakes high! I have reset & reset the one light toggle, with trim & without trim, servos buzz, surfaces respond correctly on the ground, everything set to default (according to software 'puter hook up). i.e., taking laptop to the field.
Standard installation, up right, arrow forward, unit level up top in cockpit on a dragon Lady 60 (low wing) where i can get to it. Servxovs traveling right way, gain set 1/2 way, 0 Gain on Tx knob. Turned up to 1/4 it's really wild!!
I have been fooling with it a week now & 2D has always tried to wreck you, rolls, loops, dives, etc. I even reset all my linkages mechanically so it needed little (4 clicks) of A & E to fly level. Rudder gyro seems to be workin OK, but A gyro in 2 D mode makes it do a snap roll, & servos are NOT backward!! Even reversed it to be sure. All gains are set to about 1/4 on unit.
Anybody got any ideas? Unit could be bad
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:13 PM
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United States, CA, La Caņada Flintridge
Joined Jul 2011
5,710 Posts
This talk is not instilling confidence and I am still waiting for mine. Are all these units having problems new purchases? As in last batch from Hobbyking?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:14 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebranger View Post
Mine is doing similar things. Works fair in 3D mode, wants to ad a lot of UP elevator, have to hold it down.
BUT, in 2D MODE, you better have yur finger on the switch!
It'll wreck you if you're not 3 mistakes high! I have reset & reset the one light toggle, with trim & without trim, servos buzz, surfaces respond correctly on the ground, everything set to default (according to software 'puter hook up). i.e., taking laptop to the field.
Standard installation, up right, arrow forward, unit level up top in cockpit on a dragon Lady 60 (low wing) where i can get to it. Servxovs traveling right way, gain set 1/2 way, 0 Gain on Tx knob. Turned up to 1/4 it's really wild!!
I have been fooling with it a week now & 2D has always tried to wreck you, rolls, loops, dives, etc. I even reset all my linkages mechanically so it needed little (4 clicks) of A & E to fly level. Rudder gyro seems to be workin OK, but A gyro in 2 D mode makes it do a snap roll, & servos are NOT backward!! Even reversed it to be sure. All gains are set to about 1/4 on unit.
Anybody got any ideas? Unit could be bad
Had a fellow at the field that said similar things. Turned out he had the Guardian correcting the wrong way. I switched the direction of correction and it worked great. Can't say it's your problem but it does happen.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:01 PM
Guardian Stabilizer
Joined Feb 2012
65 Posts
Pogs2004: I'm very sorry to hear about your crash! It definitely sounds like there has been a failure on the Guardian board that prevented it from being able to stabilize normally. This is usually caused by severe mechanical stress or a short while the unit is powered. That said, it is still very rare. Please open a ticket here, referencing this post and we can arrange for a replacement pronto.

The_RattleSnake:
First unit - That is very frustrating to hear. Every unit is hand tested to ensure that it's ready to operate before it is shipped. There have been reports of issues with the USB connector. We have since increased the reinforcement on that part, but still recommend that you do not apply any upward force when inserting or removing the cable from the header. A minority of USB cables have been reported to have an extra tight fit. The one we sell has been tested to fit reliably.

Second unit - This might be a misconfiguration issue if it was not stabilizing as you expected, but if you want to contact us through our ticket system as well, referencing this post, please do so and I can try and walk you through the setup procedure or issue a replacement if the unit has a problem with it. The same goes for your first unit.

Your friend's (third) unit - Out of curiosity, did this "unexpected behavior" manifest shortly after power on? Remember that switching the Mode channel back and forth quickly within the first 15 seconds of flight will reset the zero attitude and trims of the Guardian. If this had happened shortly after takeoff, it could definitely explain the behavior your friend saw.

Was your friend able to reproduce this behavior? Feedback, whether positive or constructive is always welcome!

rebranger: Yikes. I agree with Prof100. I think the first checks will be whether your unit has its gains pointed in the right direction. You can confirm this by tilting your model in 3D Mode and watching as each control surface deflects to oppose the motion. This should happen for each axis.
Beyond that, please confirm that the Reset Level Flight and Trims gesture has been done recently and with the model in the orientation of level flight. Finally, please plug your unit into the PC App and confirm that when the model is held level, that the AHI is roughly level as well and doesn't drift significantly while the plane is still. If this doesn't work, please open a ticket, referencing this post and including a copy of your configuration .TXT file saved using the PC App's "Save Config" button in the Guardian UI. While you're in the PC App, please check that the Model Control Type is Fixed Wing and that the dual aileron configuration (if present) is as it should be. (IE, are your Aileron servos mirrored? If not, is the "Aux Servo Reversed" setting enabled under the General page?
Hopefully we can get you flying real soon!

John T
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:03 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quitcherbitchen View Post
This talk is not instilling confidence and I am still waiting for mine. Are all these units having problems new purchases? As in last batch from Hobbyking?
I have one from the first batch from ET, one from a vendor probably first batch, and two more on backorder from HK and have never had a problem that wasn't self induced, and those were newbie mistakes getting set up. I love flying with it to the point that something seems missing on a plane without it.

The USB connector is visibly a weak spot. It's a small board and the connector is almost as long as the board so there is a lot of leverage applied and if it's a tight fit or you aren't careful about pushing and pulling straight you could have a problem. Maybe someday they will build-in a bluetooth link and this problem will disappear but for now, be careful. If you expect to do this a lot or your installation is hard to access, get a 5" usb dongle and leave it plugged in. Fortunately it isn't often necessary past the initial setup and often isn't necessary then either. Mine haven't been plugged-in in months.

Most of the other problems reported here turn out to be setup issues. The units are versatile and there are a number of things that can be done wrong. Read the manual thoroughly, but it covers a lot of ground and isn't exactly a how-to. Unfortunately, a how-to is a bit problematic because configurations differ. This thread is a good place to get help in sorting things out.

Don't panic. If you should receive a bad unit (very unlikely), ET has been responsive about making it good. If you run into snags, help is available.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:09 PM
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United States, CA, La Caņada Flintridge
Joined Jul 2011
5,710 Posts
That's reassuring. I played enough in the early nineties with a JR 180 gyro to know it is easy to kill you bird by too much gain. Seems like as long as the errors are human I feel better. It would be bad to wait for a piece of kit that turned out to be a piece of ____. Pardon the rhyme.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:23 PM
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United States, AR, Benton
Joined Jul 2007
61 Posts
Setting Level on the Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by gritty View Post
Hey guys, I need a little help.

The 2D/3D unit works fine, but my problem is that I can't seem to get it set to level while on the bench. What I am doing is putting a bubble level on the stabilizer and raising the rear of the plane until the bubble level indicates that the stab is level. Then I reset the 2D/3D unit for level.

When I am flying the plane with the 2D/3D off and the plane is flying level, I then engage the 2D/3D and the plane wants to pitch down The rudder and ailerons appear to be holding their position.

So, how is best way to ensure the plane is level on the bench to be able to set the 2D/3D to read this position?

Also, I notice that when the 2D/3D unit is engaged (2D position), the controls seem to be more sluggish. When not engaged, I move the controls a little bit and plane responds right away. When engaged, I need to move the controls much further and almost to full position before the plane responds. On the ground, I can see that moving the controls the planes control surfaces appear to go to full deflection just as when the 2D/3D unit is disengaged. Appears similar to like having a lot of expo turned on.

Any suggestions?

Thank you,

Gritty
I use a round "bulls eye" bubble level mounted in the plane with velcro where visible from the outside and a Robart Incidence measuring tool mounted to the wing to set level on the bench or ground. Side to side level is easily achieved when the bubble is in the middle of the level, pitch is level when incidence angle is 1 to 3 degrees on the wing. I then check the bubble position fore and aft in the plane to set Guardian. If plane dives (lowers nose) in flight in 2D mode, then increase the angle of incidence one degree when you level. I have been mounting these round levels in planes with Guardian (bought at Lowes in tool dept for about $3 I think) and they really facilitate quik check and reset of level for Guardian.

Jim D
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:48 PM
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United States, AR, Benton
Joined Jul 2007
61 Posts
Experience with Guardian

Quote:
Originally Posted by quitcherbitchen View Post
That's reassuring. I played enough in the early nineties with a JR 180 gyro to know it is easy to kill you bird by too much gain. Seems like as long as the errors are human I feel better. It would be bad to wait for a piece of kit that turned out to be a piece of ____. Pardon the rhyme.
I think Everydayflyer has a good hand on the Guardian. Don't "over think" and fiddle. Follow the set up suggestions on this site, fine tune level setting and gain settings, fly and repeat. I have found that the mix of rudder (yaw) pitch and roll is different for each plane. I start off at about 50% on each, first check for proper correction direction, and set the master gain in the middle. If one or more axis generate oscillations, lower those gains with the pots until the oscillations stop in flight, then use the master to adjust for flying condition (speed?). I find the 2D mode to be quite different from normal flying - have to hold aileron stick in direction of turn while adding a touch of elevator to hold altitude. Result is smooth level turn with return to level when stick is released. I have turn coordination active on my Super Cub and the turns are beautiful ( better than my normal coordinated turns with rudder added) which has impressed some better pilots of scale planes at my field. The EFlite Super Cub flies very scale and really needs coordinated turns to look good and fkly in scale speed, even with aileron differential. The Guardian makes it look easy. I am still working on best landing routine and still do better without the Guardian, using flaps. I have installed a Guardian in several "faster" planes but weather here has prevented testing. 3D mode makes the plane fly much more like "normal", just more steady in the wind. With the Cub this can be dangerous, as when you slow it down too much it still holds steady, right up to a snap to spin. I have been able to catch it each time, thank goodness I was up 2 mistakes high! I hope to get some testing in, but the weather in Erie, PA is on the down slide. I am hoping the Guardian will work as well as the AS3X in the EFlite Mig 15, which is a joy to fly and really makes you look good and sweat less!
Jim D
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:19 AM
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Flyindude's Avatar
Joined Aug 2012
195 Posts
If in 3d rate mode, does the gain knob where setup on your tx, adjust the derivative gain?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Silverexpress's Avatar
Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,398 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyindude View Post
If in 3d rate mode, does the gain knob where setup on your tx, adjust the derivative gain?
No. The wired servo plug marked GAIN is an input for adjusting only the Master Gain regardless of whether it is mapped to a switch or knob on your TX. This gets applied to both 2D and 3D.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Ipoh, Perak Malaysia
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
No. The wired servo plug marked GAIN is an input for adjusting only the Master Gain regardless of whether it is mapped to a switch or knob on your TX. This gets applied to both 2D and 3D.
Yes, but what is the "Master Gain?" Is it the P, I, or D or all of the above? Or rather, what exactly does the Master Gain affect?

chewy
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Joined Feb 2008
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gas airplane

sorry if this has already been answered. Do these things work on gas airplanes? My DLE 30 shakes my yak a little.
Glenn
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:19 PM
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everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,834 Posts
Master Gain has exactly the same effect as turning each of the three pots up by the same amount.




Yes the Gaurdian 2D/3D works on glw and gas as well as with turbin engines. Same preventive measure to guard agiant vibrations effecting the unit need to be take as with other single or 3 axis gyros. There are many post on vibration damptening in the heli threads.


Charles
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