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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Is there a Guardian in this one? Pilot likes 3d mode.

F/A-22 Raptor Flight Demo 2012 MCAS Miramar Air Show (7 min 18 sec)
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
Is there a Guardian in this one? Pilot likes 3d mode.
]
I know your comment was tongue in cheek, but you do raise some serious insights.

The Guardian uses a lot of technology that is surprisingly similar to planes like the F-22. The sensor part of the flight control package picks up the same sort of rate and acceleration data. And then there's some conditioning and calculation work in the on-board computer to transfer the pilot's inputs to the control surfaces. The F-22 would have some additional sensors that the Guardian lacks. Sensors such as angle of attack, airspeed, mach number, engine performance, etc.

But the basis for the Guardian is surprisingly similar to modern full scale aircraft. As little as 30 years ago the most advanced flight control designers in the world could not have matched what the Guardian does now for a mere $75.

The one place where the F-22 has it all over us is in its aerodynamics. Notice that he is able to fly in full control at extreme angles of attack, just like our 3D models do. BUT, there is a major difference. Our models need to fly in their own propellor wash to maintain control. And to a large extent, our 3D models are rarely at extreme angle angles of attack. The propellor provides low angle of attack airflow over the tail surfaces and the inner portions of the wing & ailerons. The F-22 does all of that without the benefit of flying in it's own propellor wake.

Not selling the Guardian short. It's a truly amazing device. But the F-22 is all that and more. (But not at the same $75 price point).

Dick
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:30 PM
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Oklahoma, USA
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Originally Posted by JDougherty, Erie View Post
Thanks! I ordered four of the 5" micro B extensions to give a flexible connection with USB to laptop, also two of the 12". This should make program adjustments and resets at the field much easier. ET should offer the 5" on their site as it can be difficult to attach the stiff cord they sell to a unit mounted at CG in fuse or cabin.
Jim
+1 I ordered two just three days ago and they came today.

Steve
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Floater73 View Post
+1 I ordered two just three days ago and they came today.

Steve
Do they have that super flexible silicone wire?
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:17 PM
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United States, AR, Benton
Joined Jul 2007
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Wire on 5" micro B extensions

I just received mine today. Wire appears to be same gauge as micro B USB cord from ET. Still will give offset needed to connect to main cord, to computer. I also got 12" which will allow easy access to deeply embedded Guardian unit to connect.

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Do they have that super flexible silicone wire?
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Galand View Post
Do they have that super flexible silicone wire?
No, just common usb cable. Silicone would be nice.

Steve
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:59 PM
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Long Island, NY
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Originally Posted by Floater73 View Post
No, just common usb cable. Silicone would be nice.

Steve
Ah, well!
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 01:42 PM
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Joined Feb 2009
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Problem with Eagletree 2D/3D stabilizer

Hello,

When flipping the switch from 2D to 3D mode, the elevator reverses!! The rudder keeps working in the right direction.
I'm using a Futaba 10C transmitter with the gain on a turning knob and the mod on a 3 position switch.
So when I would change from 2D to 3D in flight the elevator will work in reverse and lead to a crash.
Did I do something wrong, or is it not possible to switch from 2D to 3D?
Or do I have a unit with al little problem?

Hope you guys can help.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher, Netherlands.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 01:48 PM
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Berkley, MI
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Originally Posted by schummie View Post
Hello,

When flipping the switch from 2D to 3D mode, the elevator reverses!! The rudder keeps working in the right direction.
I'm using a Futaba 10C transmitter with the gain on a turning knob and the mod on a 3 position switch.
So when I would change from 2D to 3D in flight the elevator will work in reverse and lead to a crash.
Did I do something wrong, or is it not possible to switch from 2D to 3D?
Or do I have a unit with al little problem?

Hope you guys can help.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher, Netherlands.
In 3D mode the elevator should oppose the direction of pitch, and its starting and ending point will depend on when you last recentered the sticks.

In 2D mode the same opposing throw should also occur, but its starting and returning point is the plane's "set" level.

You have to move the aircraft to see these affects.

Did you correctly set the level and trims?

Is the trim pot on the Guardian unit for the elevator servo set in the correct direction?
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Last edited by Silverexpress; Oct 19, 2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 02:23 PM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schummie View Post
Hello,

When flipping the switch from 2D to 3D mode, the elevator reverses!! The rudder keeps working in the right direction.
I'm using a Futaba 10C transmitter with the gain on a turning knob and the mod on a 3 position switch.
So when I would change from 2D to 3D in flight the elevator will work in reverse and lead to a crash.
Did I do something wrong, or is it not possible to switch from 2D to 3D?
Or do I have a unit with al little problem?

Hope you guys can help.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher, Netherlands.
Could you clarify for us. ON bench testing:- Does the direction of elevator travel reverse JUST for guardian corrections OR when you input elevator commands, are they reversed as well?
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 05:13 PM
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DavidN

On bench testing, the direction just changes for guardian corrections. The elevator moves correctly with elevator input from the stick.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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What happens in both modes if you set the elevator pot in the opposite direction + reset trim & level?
Is this a low wing plane with inverted install?
This sounds silly but is the arrow pointing forward?
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
What happens in both modes if you set the elevator pot in the opposite direction + reset trim & level?
Is this a low wing plane with inverted install?
This sounds silly but is the arrow pointing forward?
DavidN,

Thank you for thinking with me. The first thing I did, and resulted in opposite movement. So now up in 2D and down in 3D or visa versa. If I executed a reset and trim then, i don't know. But I'll try that. It was very late for me last night. Remember ther's a 7 hours time difference. I personally think there's nothing wrong with the Eagle tree.
Second; Yes, it is a low wing plane with inverted install, and third the arrow is pointing forward.

I got the following answer from Eagle Tree support. It was fast, so thumbs up for their service and support.

It sounds like you have re-trimmed your model with 2D Mode enabled, so that when you switch to 3D Mode the commanded angular rate is not zeroed properly.

The correct method for re-trimming your model with the Guardian involves taking off and flying with stabilization disabled, trimming the model for level flight and then resetting level flight and trims information with a single switch toggle as specified in the manual under the section "Mode/Config Switch Behavior." Once this has been done properly, you should be able to fly in both 2D and 3D Modes with the expected level of performance.


I'm almost sure that the answer lies in this aeria , but I don't understand exactly what they mean, because thats what you have to do according to the manual. I replied back to them with the following:

Thank you for your quick reaction. You guys get a thumbs up for service. However I don't completely understand what you mean by re-trimming when in 2D mode. The manual says that I have to toggle the switch 1 time for resetting level flight and trims. Up down, or down up, depending if the switch is up or down. Doesn't this imply that I always retrim in 2D or 3D mode depending on the position of the switch?

The transmitter is a Futaba 10C. The mode is on a three position switch, and the overall gain is on the variable switch c (Knob C). I think to prevent mixing issues, Ill try and begin from scratch in an empty new model on the transmitter.
And finally, the throws on the elevator were at 48 and 53 percent in the transmitter. I tried it again with the throws at 100 %, but I'm not sure if I did a retrim then.

I hope that with my Dutch background this english is understandable for you.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 04:06 AM
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Joined Aug 2012
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Hi charles

The defaults in my guardian were approx 0.8 to 2.2. This will exceed 100% of Tx rates, assuming you are not exceeding 100% already in your setup. I don't think this is a good default, with a risk of binding previously carefully setup control surfaces. I changed mine back o the 1.1 to 1.9 and it works great. Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Yes I am aware of that but are you or the ones with issues seeing the Guardian 2D/3D with default settings drive a servo witht a signal outside of the normal 1.100 to 1.900 range?

What is defined as 100% travel a range other than I posted?
What range will the default Guardian achive?

Charles
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Canada, NB, Drummond
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schummie View Post
DavidN,

Thank you for thinking with me. The first thing I did, and resulted in opposite movement. So now up in 2D and down in 3D or visa versa. If I executed a reset and trim then, i don't know. But I'll try that. It was very late for me last night. Remember ther's a 7 hours time difference. I personally think there's nothing wrong with the Eagle tree.
Second; Yes, it is a low wing plane with inverted install, and third the arrow is pointing forward.

I got the following answer from Eagle Tree support. It was fast, so thumbs up for their service and support.

It sounds like you have re-trimmed your model with 2D Mode enabled, so that when you switch to 3D Mode the commanded angular rate is not zeroed properly.

The correct method for re-trimming your model with the Guardian involves taking off and flying with stabilization disabled, trimming the model for level flight and then resetting level flight and trims information with a single switch toggle as specified in the manual under the section "Mode/Config Switch Behavior." Once this has been done properly, you should be able to fly in both 2D and 3D Modes with the expected level of performance.


I'm almost sure that the answer lies in this aeria , but I don't understand exactly what they mean, because thats what you have to do according to the manual. I replied back to them with the following:

Thank you for your quick reaction. You guys get a thumbs up for service. However I don't completely understand what you mean by re-trimming when in 2D mode. The manual says that I have to toggle the switch 1 time for resetting level flight and trims. Up down, or down up, depending if the switch is up or down. Doesn't this imply that I always retrim in 2D or 3D mode depending on the position of the switch?

The transmitter is a Futaba 10C. The mode is on a three position switch, and the overall gain is on the variable switch c (Knob C). I think to prevent mixing issues, Ill try and begin from scratch in an empty new model on the transmitter.
And finally, the throws on the elevator were at 48 and 53 percent in the transmitter. I tried it again with the throws at 100 %, but I'm not sure if I did a retrim then.

I hope that with my Dutch background this english is understandable for you.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher
Eric
From reading your post and the response from ET, it seems that you may have tried to adjust your trims while the Guardian was in 2D mode. You need to adjust trims with the Guardian turned OFF and then reset the Guardian Trims when back on the ground. This will ensure that the Guardian knows where your center stick is.

This was actually a good reminder for me as well. Last couple of flights I noticed that in 2D mode the plane wasn't tracking properly. Now I have been reminded to reset the trims in the Guardian.

Hope this made some kind of sense...?

Al
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