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Old Sep 28, 2012, 12:29 AM
But often down to earth
Floater73's Avatar
Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
736 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alros_100 View Post
Ben,

You are describing the behaviour of centre stick stabilization perfectly.

Some history: the guardian add on version has no 3D rate mode. Only 2D and off. So you could not do loops and full rolls in 2D mode as there was a max angle being enforced (just like 2d mode with stand alone now). So your options were to fly sedate 2d, then turn off to do aerobatics. Some of us requested a feature that would allow rolls amd loops, but if you got in trouble, you would centre stick, and it would immediately level the plane. So centre stick stabilization was born. The box size became how much you could move the stick before 2d turned off, but as you point out there is somewhat of an abrupt change once you leave the box since inside the box you have to hold the stick deflected to keep a bank angle, but as soon as you leave the box, you are no longer in 2d mode so if you held the stick defelected the plane would roll (or loop) . The challenge occurs when you are trying to keep a certain high bank angle - but to do this you need to enter and leave the box repeatidly. This was problematic for me as it felt un-natural - but it does allow you to roll and loop then let go of stick and perfectly stabilize

So in a long winded manner, i think your observations are spot on and are the trade off with using centre stick mode. In the end, i adjusted box size between large and small until i found a level that flew most natural to me.

With guardian standalone - i just love the 3d mode. It allows you to do what ever you want, and i fllick switch to 2d mode to save me if i get in trouble. So i am not using centre stick mode any more

Al
You are right on!

Steve
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 01:25 PM
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United States, CA, Pleasanton
Joined Apr 2002
428 Posts
Sport Flying Set UP Question

Guys,

I want to start using my Guardian on a 4 channel electric sport flyer.

I will be using the plane to practice basic (not real 3D) aerobatic maneuvers (split-s, knife edge, inverted flight, 4 point rolls, etc).

My Tx will be set up with the recommended 3-pos 2D / 3D switch and a master gain control.

After reading the manual several times please tell me if this makes sense:

When "just flying around" in gusty conditions I will use the 2D mode with heading hold enabled.

When I am flying aerobatics I will switch to 3D mode with "direct rate" enabled.

The manual seems to suggest that using the 3D mode is preferable to using the 2D mode and enabling the "center stick stabilize mode".

Does this make sense..???

TIA for any tips, advice and suggestions.

:harry
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 01:54 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
1,846 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrye View Post
When "just flying around" in gusty conditions I will use the 2D mode with heading hold enabled.

When I am flying aerobatics I will switch to 3D mode with "direct rate" enabled.
3D mode is just as resistant to turbulance as 2D, there's not much need to switch over. I do prefer 2D for landing and it does have other applications but 3D feels more natural most of the time. Since you have it on a switch, don't over think it, just try both and use what you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrye View Post
The manual seems to suggest that using the 3D mode is preferable to using the 2D mode and enabling the "center stick stabilize mode".
Generally, yes.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Joined Sep 2007
643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrye View Post
Guys,

I want to start using my Guardian on a 4 channel electric sport flyer.

I will be using the plane to practice basic (not real 3D) aerobatic maneuvers (split-s, knife edge, inverted flight, 4 point rolls, etc).

My Tx will be set up with the recommended 3-pos 2D / 3D switch and a master gain control.

After reading the manual several times please tell me if this makes sense:

When "just flying around" in gusty conditions I will use the 2D mode with heading hold enabled.

When I am flying aerobatics I will switch to 3D mode with "direct rate" enabled.

The manual seems to suggest that using the 3D mode is preferable to using the 2D mode and enabling the "center stick stabilize mode".

Does this make sense..???

TIA for any tips, advice and suggestions.

:harry
If you are learning 3D moves of any sort then you already know how to fly. You will never need 2D for anything. I play with it once in a while but I don't bother with it for anything. 3D mode does everything you want to compensate for gusts while landing. I don't use 3D heading hold mode myself so I can learn to fly better.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 04:20 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Ripon
Joined Dec 2011
309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
If you are learning 3D moves of any sort then you already know how to fly. You will never need 2D for anything. I play with it once in a while but I don't bother with it for anything. 3D mode does everything you want to compensate for gusts while landing. I don't use 3D heading hold mode myself so I can learn to fly better.
I dont agree about 2D mode ive had a lot of fun with it on my Extra 260 and lets me push way beyond extreme, Im no way brave or quick enough to do what it lets me do. I can throw it into violent snap roll after snap roll followed by insane tumbles and as soon as it gets close to the floor let the sticks go for instant recovery. If I do multiple snaps and tumbles without it I loose orientation after about 5 rolls with 2D on im letting the plane do upto 30 rolls
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 04:43 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Announcing the Guardian 2D/3D stabilizer

I am an old RC'er. Just got the Eagle Tree Guardian 2D/3D installed in my Extra 300 EXP. The system moves the control surfaces o.k., but I want to fine tune on my computer. Bought a Radio Shack cable USB-A to Mini USB-B usable for mobile phones and cameras. Downloaded the Data Recorder. When I click the DR icon it asks to connect the USB cable. I did that very carefully at the Guardian end, but no connection was made and no 3 blinks at the Guardian LED. Does anyone had a similar experience? Is the USB plug at the Guardian defective? Appreciate greatly any comments. Hans
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 05:08 PM
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USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
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First, try another USB port in your PC if it has more than one, just to ensure it is not the USB port in the PC.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 06:30 PM
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Tried it. Still no luck. Thanks Hans
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 06:37 PM
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USA, KS, Derby
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In that case, reseat and make sure the USB at the Guardian end is properly seated. If that still does not help, it may be better to contact EagleTree SYstem directly or BillPA here.

BTW, do you know that you can also tune and setup the Guardian using the Tx sticks? It is in the manual. If you just want to tune the settings, I find it useful too.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 08:37 PM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
1,034 Posts
USB Hub vs. Direct Port

One other thing to try is to plug the USB cable directly into a port on your computer with no intervening hub - powered or unpowered.

That worked for me. Subsequently, I wound up with an inexpensive Radio Shack GigaWare hub, tried it, and it worked, but the original hub behaved as the original poster described.

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
First, try another USB port in your PC if it has more than one, just to ensure it is not the USB port in the PC.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 08:43 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
1,846 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansschroeder View Post
I am an old RC'er. Just got the Eagle Tree Guardian 2D/3D installed in my Extra 300 EXP. The system moves the control surfaces o.k., but I want to fine tune on my computer. Bought a Radio Shack cable USB-A to Mini USB-B usable for mobile phones and cameras. Downloaded the Data Recorder. When I click the DR icon it asks to connect the USB cable. I did that very carefully at the Guardian end, but no connection was made and no 3 blinks at the Guardian LED. Does anyone had a similar experience? Is the USB plug at the Guardian defective? Appreciate greatly any comments. Hans
It's worth getting the PC link to work correctly but still, it seems you are trying to tune something without knowing what tuning is necessary. The things that are most important can be done at the field with the transmitter. While you are sorting out the USB issue, fly the plane.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 06:41 AM
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Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansschroeder View Post
I am an old RC'er. Just got the Eagle Tree Guardian 2D/3D installed in my Extra 300 EXP. The system moves the control surfaces o.k., but I want to fine tune on my computer. Bought a Radio Shack cable USB-A to Mini USB-B usable for mobile phones and cameras. Downloaded the Data Recorder. When I click the DR icon it asks to connect the USB cable. I did that very carefully at the Guardian end, but no connection was made and no 3 blinks at the Guardian LED. Does anyone had a similar experience? Is the USB plug at the Guardian defective? Appreciate greatly any comments. Hans
1) Check that the cable works. You must have some other gadgets like camera or a memory bank or some other that uses the same mini usb -connection. Or borrow one of neighbors, you should hear a "bling" sound a few seconds after connecting the device to computer. Some cheap cables may be DOA, dead on arrival. A broken UBS connector is a possibility also.

2) Check that you have the version of Eagle Tree Data Recorder that supports Guardian 2D/3D. A while ago it was not the standard but a beta release.

Programming Guardian 2D/3D with transmitter is possible, but my opinion is that it is the second option for field use. I use it mainly to set servo calibration. With computer you can see online how Guardian sees horizontal and vertical position, you can see exactly the settings of potentiometers etc. I have a good quality 9 feet USB -extension cable + USB-to mini/micro USB -cables and they have proven to be great help when programming different flight controllers, inc. Guardian.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 04:45 PM
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United States, NH, Londonderry
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansschroeder View Post
I am an old RC'er. Just got the Eagle Tree Guardian 2D/3D installed in my Extra 300 EXP. The system moves the control surfaces o.k., but I want to fine tune on my computer. Bought a Radio Shack cable USB-A to Mini USB-B usable for mobile phones and cameras. Downloaded the Data Recorder. When I click the DR icon it asks to connect the USB cable. I did that very carefully at the Guardian end, but no connection was made and no 3 blinks at the Guardian LED. Does anyone had a similar experience? Is the USB plug at the Guardian defective? Appreciate greatly any comments. Hans
First, what version of the ET Data Recorder/Windows Application have to downloaded and installed on your PC?

Let's make sure you have the correct version number.

-mike-
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 02:22 AM
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Joined Nov 2010
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hans,
you have the WRONG cable. mini-b is a different size than micro-b (the correct size)

rateoneturn
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 03:05 AM
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2005
1,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alros_100 View Post
Ben,

You are describing the behaviour of centre stick stabilization perfectly.

Some history: the guardian add on version has no 3D rate mode. Only 2D and off. So you could not do loops and full rolls in 2D mode as there was a max angle being enforced (just like 2d mode with stand alone now). So your options were to fly sedate 2d, then turn off to do aerobatics. Some of us requested a feature that would allow rolls amd loops, but if you got in trouble, you would centre stick, and it would immediately level the plane. So centre stick stabilization was born. The box size became how much you could move the stick before 2d turned off, but as you point out there is somewhat of an abrupt change once you leave the box since inside the box you have to hold the stick deflected to keep a bank angle, but as soon as you leave the box, you are no longer in 2d mode so if you held the stick defelected the plane would roll (or loop) . The challenge occurs when you are trying to keep a certain high bank angle - but to do this you need to enter and leave the box repeatidly. This was problematic for me as it felt un-natural - but it does allow you to roll and loop then let go of stick and perfectly stabilize

So in a long winded manner ( on my part !), i think your observations are spot on and are the trade off with using centre stick mode. In the end, i adjusted box size between large and small until i found a level that flew most natural to me.

With guardian standalone - i just love the 3d mode. It allows you to do what ever you want, and i fllick switch to 2d mode to save me if i get in trouble. So i am not using centre stick mode any more

Al
OK great

Thanks for that, so i seem to be understanding how it all works.

What i tried at the field this weekend was to make the box as large as i could and increase and decrease the gains until i found the right "feeling"

All of this was to avoid the abrupt change from stabilised to no stabilisation.

I couldnt find anything that works for me.

What i think i need to do is to make the box as small as possible (or turn it off)
as this should get rid of that "step" in control.

Thanks for the pointers guys it has helped me clarify a few things

Will report back when i have had chance to give it ago.

Ben
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