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Old Sep 26, 2012, 09:29 AM
Static Model Collector LOL
Katy, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Can someone post the servo limits for HS5085's

Thanks,

FCA
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 10:38 AM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
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Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
I assume you are seeing an increase in travel when you turn stabilization on? This will be the oddly huge limits the Guardian uses. It ignores your radios limits. You need to set up custom limits using your PC. It works in real time so you can change a value, and check right away. I set mine to the nearest 100 microsecond value that matched my normal radio limits. The defaults max out many servos and can cause damage.
Thanks. But I'd already set the servo limits to 100%. This didn't change the stick travel differences though - but did serve to stop the servos from grinding during the upper half of the stick travel when either 2D or 3D mode was selected.

Any thoughts on how to get the ratio of stick travel to servo deflection to be the same in the Guardian off mode, as I get when I select the 2D or 3D modes?

(I'm getting full servo deflection with first half stick travel in 2D and 3D modes. I'm getting full servo deflection at full stick travel in off mode.)

This effect is proportional to the amount of gain set via the transmitter. 0 gain, no effect - stick travels the same for the same effect in all 3 modes - off, 2D and 3D.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
Thanks. But I'd already set the servo limits to 100%. This didn't change the stick travel differences though - but did serve to stop the servos from grinding during the upper half of the stick travel when either 2D or 3D mode was selected.

Any thoughts on how to get the ratio of stick travel to servo deflection to be the same in the Guardian off mode, as I get when I select the 2D or 3D modes?

(I'm getting full servo deflection with first half stick travel in 2D and 3D modes. I'm getting full servo deflection at full stick travel in off mode.)

This effect is proportional to the amount of gain set via the transmitter. 0 gain, no effect - stick travels the same for the same effect in all 3 modes - off, 2D and 3D.
If heading hold is on in those modes then the responses can vary quite a bit from your sticks. For example the direct rate mode attempts to convert an aileron stick movement into a roll rate, not a surface movement. In order to achieve the roll rate it might want to use as much of the allowed range as you programmed it to have. The proportional gain of each axis and the gain on the transmitter are basically multiplied together so the effects you are seeing are scaled with the overall gain as you are seeing. Try 3D with heading hold off and direct rate mode off and see what happens. It should look a lot more like off mode. In 3 mode like this the surfaces will respond to shaking of the aircraft and only while shaking. This is basically just a rate-gyro emulation.

With an active control loop between you and the plane, there is no problem with the responses being quite different from the sticks as long as you know why.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 04:23 AM
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2005
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HI Guys

anothert questiuon regarding the control stick Box?

am i correct in assujing that whilst in 2d mode when the stick is out side the box there is no stabilisation going on but when the stick is inside the box there is stabilisation?

cheers
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
If heading hold is on in those modes then the responses can vary quite a bit from your sticks. For example the direct rate mode attempts to convert an aileron stick movement into a roll rate, not a surface movement. In order to achieve the roll rate it might want to use as much of the allowed range as you programmed it to have. The proportional gain of each axis and the gain on the transmitter are basically multiplied together so the effects you are seeing are scaled with the overall gain as you are seeing. Try 3D with heading hold off and direct rate mode off and see what happens. It should look a lot more like off mode. In 3 mode like this the surfaces will respond to shaking of the aircraft and only while shaking. This is basically just a rate-gyro emulation.

With an active control loop between you and the plane, there is no problem with the responses being quite different from the sticks as long as you know why.
Tim, BJM-Maxx, I've got the same huge difference in the servo travel that you do, when stabilization is on.
In my case, I am pretty new, so 2D mode is my life preserver during the learning curve, and the radical difference is a real headache. It seems to be only the elevator that goes radical in travel. My setup is 100% servo travel in trans. The increase varies with gain. Read your post, BJM, and that does not seem to solve the problem.
Put me into a tree on approach. Tree ate my lovely, scratch-built elliptical wing. New one is ready, but I'm afraid to fly it, with wild elevators.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 06:45 AM
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Originally Posted by wazzer View Post
HI Guys

anothert questiuon regarding the control stick Box?

am i correct in assujing that whilst in 2d mode when the stick is out side the box there is no stabilisation going on but when the stick is inside the box there is stabilisation?

cheers
Simple answer is yes, if Center Box Stab. Only Mode is enabled.

Stab. % cneter of box 100% out side the box 0%. Box size is adjustable and works much the same as Expo. . If one has normal Trans. expo set at 100% then stcick movements near center have little control with Guardian 2D/3D the unit has max. control not the Transmitter(Pilot).
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Simple answer is yes, if Center Box Stab. Only Mode is enabled.

Stab. % cneter of box 100% out side the box 0%. Box size is adjustable and works much the same as Expo. . If one has normal Trans. expo set at 100% then stcick movements near center have little control with Guardian 2D/3D the unit has max. control not the Transmitter(Pilot).
Thanks fopr the clarification.

What i am finding at the moment with box size 5
when i come infor landing and i am using small stick inputs to control flare i dont seem to have much control.
This makes sense if teh Guardian has most control closer to stick center.

I also find that when the stick is out of the box i suddenly have much more control.
its not very gradual.

My plan was to increase the box size to maximum so there is a smother transition from Pilot control to guardian control and then increase the gains to get a more positive reaction to pilot controls.

Does that make sense?

What happens if you reduce the box size to minimum or tunr it off?
does the guardian only have maximum control at stick center and nothing outside this?

Cheers

Ben
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wazoo22 View Post
Tim, BJM-Maxx, I've got the same huge difference in the servo travel that you do, when stabilization is on.
In my case, I am pretty new, so 2D mode is my life preserver during the learning curve, and the radical difference is a real headache. It seems to be only the elevator that goes radical in travel. My setup is 100% servo travel in trans. The increase varies with gain. Read your post, BJM, and that does not seem to solve the problem.
Put me into a tree on approach. Tree ate my lovely, scratch-built elliptical wing. New one is ready, but I'm afraid to fly it, with wild elevators.
2D mode is more complicated and I have not played with it as much. I want to confirm a couple of things.

I think you are you saying you have define safe servo limits?

When your accident occurred, are you saying the Guardian made an unexpected course change that put you in a tree? The reason I ask is I remember learning to fly and even if the Guardian had been available I know I could have hit a tree without knowing why.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Haralson County GA. USA
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I have flown the Guardian 2D/3D many flights with all the Default settings and it worked great. I like heading hold in 3D and 2D for me is more useful for hands off flying while swating a bug,adjusting sun glasses etc.than actualy flying unless one needs a super stable trainer. I have done take off and landings in both 2D and 3D with default settings only using the throttle and evevator after turning onto final.

I have read many post where it seems most feel they need to tweak all of the adjustments and some seem to enjoy such. I like simple and would rather only tweak what has to be tweaked.

I guess I spend so much time setting up and tweaking some of my helis that I am mostly tweaked out.

Charlres
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 02:08 PM
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I am mostly tweaked out.

Charlres
LOL

That is exactly why i bought a Naza FC i am fed up tweaking my MWC and Megapirate Boards!!
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Sorry that was a little off topic!

Can anyone answer my questions above about the box size etc?

cheers
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 02:18 PM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
If heading hold is on in those modes then the responses can vary quite a bit from your sticks. For example the direct rate mode attempts to convert an aileron stick movement into a roll rate, not a surface movement. In order to achieve the roll rate it might want to use as much of the allowed range as you programmed it to have. The proportional gain of each axis and the gain on the transmitter are basically multiplied together so the effects you are seeing are scaled with the overall gain as you are seeing. Try 3D with heading hold off and direct rate mode off and see what happens. It should look a lot more like off mode. In 3 mode like this the surfaces will respond to shaking of the aircraft and only while shaking. This is basically just a rate-gyro emulation.

With an active control loop between you and the plane, there is no problem with the responses being quite different from the sticks as long as you know why.
Thanks. I'll take it up then, and see how it flies. Should be fun.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 04:14 PM
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Great White North
Joined Jun 2008
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Wazoo22

Different airframes may need different gains on ailerons vs elevator. Can you tell us what level you have the physical potentiometer gains set at. It is possible that you need to reduce your elevator pot gains so that when you adjust the overall gain on the transmitter dial, that you have more balanced response from elevator.

As far as i can tell, there are two factors that affect how much your servo is deflected by the guardian: 1) is the max servo delection adjustment page by computer; and 2) the gain level combo of pot gains and the overal gain "multiplier".

At max gains you use #1 to limit servo travel so no binding occurs (remeber guardian does not read your transmitter set limits). If you have a good safe travel limit, you are then ready to find the level of elev, ail, and rudder gains that stabilize your plane without oscillation.

If the gains are set approriately, you should not have excessive servo defelection in 2D mode. For example on my funjet, the gains are such that only a few milimeters of deflection are produced and quickly level a small fast moving plane

Al
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wazzer View Post
Thanks fopr the clarification.

What i am finding at the moment with box size 5
when i come infor landing and i am using small stick inputs to control flare i dont seem to have much control.
This makes sense if teh Guardian has most control closer to stick center.

I also find that when the stick is out of the box i suddenly have much more control.
its not very gradual.

My plan was to increase the box size to maximum so there is a smother transition from Pilot control to guardian control and then increase the gains to get a more positive reaction to pilot controls.

Does that make sense?

What happens if you reduce the box size to minimum or tunr it off?
does the guardian only have maximum control at stick center and nothing outside this?

Cheers

Ben
Ben,

You are describing the behaviour of centre stick stabilization perfectly.

Some history: the guardian add on version has no 3D rate mode. Only 2D and off. So you could not do loops and full rolls in 2D mode as there was a max angle being enforced (just like 2d mode with stand alone now). So your options were to fly sedate 2d, then turn off to do aerobatics. Some of us requested a feature that would allow rolls amd loops, but if you got in trouble, you would centre stick, and it would immediately level the plane. So centre stick stabilization was born. The box size became how much you could move the stick before 2d turned off, but as you point out there is somewhat of an abrupt change once you leave the box since inside the box you have to hold the stick deflected to keep a bank angle, but as soon as you leave the box, you are no longer in 2d mode so if you held the stick defelected the plane would roll (or loop) . The challenge occurs when you are trying to keep a certain high bank angle - but to do this you need to enter and leave the box repeatidly. This was problematic for me as it felt un-natural - but it does allow you to roll and loop then let go of stick and perfectly stabilize

So in a long winded manner ( on my part !), i think your observations are spot on and are the trade off with using centre stick mode. In the end, i adjusted box size between large and small until i found a level that flew most natural to me.

With guardian standalone - i just love the 3d mode. It allows you to do what ever you want, and i fllick switch to 2d mode to save me if i get in trouble. So i am not using centre stick mode any more

Al
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 06:29 PM
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United States, KY, Madisonville
Joined Mar 2011
544 Posts
I have a Skyfun that I could not fly a year ago do to lack of skills. My skills have improved but the plane is still a handful for me.

I installed the Guardian. Take off and land in 2D. Fly up to 5 mistakes high, set the throttle for slightly rising flight, and switch it off. Switch back to 2D to recover.

Great tool!
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