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Old Sep 04, 2012, 05:40 AM
Night flier
United Kingdom, England, Bromyard
Joined Mar 2008
832 Posts
interesting would be good on my condor 1880 fpv model!
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 08:49 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2012
23 Posts
Guardian question: Master gain

Hi,

Managed to complete a few sucessful flights with Guardian and Radian Pro last night after 26year absence from RC flying! I have the Guardian installed in the RP and have been using 2D mode only. I have the plane balanced and trimmed good when Guardian is OFF, and also have the 'straight and level' attitude set on the Guardian and the trims set OK on the Guardian.

I have DX6i, so use GEAR to turn Guardian 'OFF' or '2D' mode. I will setup a MIX GEAR-GEAR to allow OFF/2D/3D in the future...but first a few questions:

1. The GAIN input on the Guadian is disconnected as I do not have an analogue knob / spare switch. I see from many posts here that with the GAIN disconnected, it defaults to 40% master gain (i.e. 40% of the pot settings). However, the eagle Tree manual states that if no GAIN input is connected, it defaults to 100% GAIN....which is it?

2. I have 2D HH enabled, set HIGH. I also have 'Automatic Turn Coordination' enabled (set to 4) to provide a bit of rudder during roll. I hold the plane level and move / let go of the aileron to reset the 2D HH. If I YAW to the left (looking from behind), then 2D HH kicks in and raises the RIGHT Aileron / lowers left to roll the plane back to the stored 2D heading with no rudder movement. This I understand. However, I notice that if I now ROLL the plane to the left (to simulate gust of wind under the right wing, not touching the sticks) the ailerons deflect to bank to the right to get back to stored heading AND the RUDDER deflects to the LEFT also (as in turns/yaws the plane to the left as in rudder co-ordinated turn). It seems that the 'Automatic Turn Coordination' senses that the plane has rolled to the left (even though this is not through stick inputs), so assumes that LEFT rudder is required to balance the turn; despite the fact that the ailerons are trying to roll the plane back to the right to stabilise. I would have thought that the rudder would work with the ailerons?
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 09:58 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,616 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmons1a View Post
Hi,

Managed to complete a few sucessful flights with Guardian and Radian Pro last night after 26year absence from RC flying! I have the Guardian installed in the RP and have been using 2D mode only. I have the plane balanced and trimmed good when Guardian is OFF, and also have the 'straight and level' attitude set on the Guardian and the trims set OK on the Guardian.

I have DX6i, so use GEAR to turn Guardian 'OFF' or '2D' mode. I will setup a MIX GEAR-GEAR to allow OFF/2D/3D in the future...but first a few questions:

1. The GAIN input on the Guadian is disconnected as I do not have an analogue knob / spare switch. I see from many posts here that with the GAIN disconnected, it defaults to 40% master gain (i.e. 40% of the pot settings). However, the eagle Tree manual states that if no GAIN input is connected, it defaults to 100% GAIN....which is it?

2. I have 2D HH enabled, set HIGH. I also have 'Automatic Turn Coordination' enabled (set to 4) to provide a bit of rudder during roll. I hold the plane level and move / let go of the aileron to reset the 2D HH. If I YAW to the left (looking from behind), then 2D HH kicks in and raises the RIGHT Aileron / lowers left to roll the plane back to the stored 2D heading with no rudder movement. This I understand. However, I notice that if I now ROLL the plane to the left (to simulate gust of wind under the right wing, not touching the sticks) the ailerons deflect to bank to the right to get back to stored heading AND the RUDDER deflects to the LEFT also (as in turns/yaws the plane to the left as in rudder co-ordinated turn). It seems that the 'Automatic Turn Coordination' senses that the plane has rolled to the left (even though this is not through stick inputs), so assumes that LEFT rudder is required to balance the turn; despite the fact that the ailerons are trying to roll the plane back to the right to stabilise. I would have thought that the rudder would work with the ailerons?
I have not been please with turn coordination when I tried it. Try turning it off and see if it improves.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Guardian in a Habu?

Anybody tried the Guardian in a Habu? If yes, where did you mount it?

Bill
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 12:27 PM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
1,164 Posts
Guardian In A Habu 32 EDF

I mounted a Guardian unit in my Habu 32 EDF (fiberglass version, not the Parkzone foam version) and it works great.

I mounted my unit just to the right (pilot's perspective) of the nosewheel steering servo in the same upper half as the receiver (and telemetry module).

I glued a thin (1/16" IIRC) plywood plate across the reinforcement rails and used the exterior grade 3M double-sided sticky tape between the plywood mounting plate and the bottom of the Guardian unit. My receiver is behind the NWS servo and the telemetry module is in front of the NWS servo.

All wiring fits without the need for extensions. The Guardian is a little forward and to the right of the CG as the NWS servo is on the center-line, but I have not observed any adverse effects, so far. The Habu tracks on final as if it is on rails.

Landings are less stressful, for me, as we have trees close by the west end and the trees on the east end, while not a factor for obstacle clearance, do mask the small Habu. Consequently, it is necessary to make a steep approach and the Guardian keeps the bird level so I only have to manage power and tweak the elevator to control airspeed.

I did try to re-position the receiver so that the Guardian unit could be on the center line, closer to the CG, but the battery clearance and the USB PC cable fit were problematic; hence the location alongside the NWS servo.

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Anybody tried the Guardian in a Habu? If yes, where did you mount it?

Bill
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake6515 View Post
I mounted a Guardian unit in my Habu 32 EDF (fiberglass version, not the Parkzone foam version) and it works great.

I mounted my unit just to the right (pilot's perspective) of the nosewheel steering servo in the same upper half as the receiver (and telemetry module).

I glued a thin (1/16" IIRC) plywood plate across the reinforcement rails and used the exterior grade 3M double-sided sticky tape between the plywood mounting plate and the bottom of the Guardian unit. My receiver is behind the NWS servo and the telemetry module is in front of the NWS servo.

All wiring fits without the need for extensions. The Guardian is a little forward and to the right of the CG as the NWS servo is on the center-line, but I have not observed any adverse effects, so far. The Habu tracks on final as if it is on rails.

Landings are less stressful, for me, as we have trees close by the west end and the trees on the east end, while not a factor for obstacle clearance, do mask the small Habu. Consequently, it is necessary to make a steep approach and the Guardian keeps the bird level so I only have to manage power and tweak the elevator to control airspeed.

I did try to re-position the receiver so that the Guardian unit could be on the center line, closer to the CG, but the battery clearance and the USB PC cable fit were problematic; hence the location alongside the NWS servo.

Michael
Michael,

Thanks, it helps but not a Habu foam version.

Bill
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I have not been please with turn coordination when I tried it. Try turning it off and see if it improves.
I turned OFF the 'Auto Turn Coordination', and when trying to correct a non control input generated roll, the rudder no longer moves opposing the aileons...in fact the rudder does not move at all!

I managed to work out that the 'Master Gain' does default to around 40%, and have setup a MIX on DX6i to give me -100% OFF / -0% MEDIUM and +80% gain on MIX1.

Is there a way that anyone knows of setting the default MASTER gain to something other than the 40%?
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
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Hi everyone, I am new using the guardian stabilizer; actually I am testing the system, but I have a question. In 2D mode, when I move my UAV in yaw axis the system compensate with rudder but also with aileron, but in roll axis only compensate with ailerons, is this correct??? I apreciate all the help that you can bring me.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:16 PM
But often down to earth
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Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Anybody tried the Guardian in a Habu? If yes, where did you mount it?

Bill
I made a 1/16 ply board that sits right above the receiver. I made the fit just tight enough to hold the ply in place and added just a little hot glue. The board would have to be lifted to get to the receiver. The Guardian is velcroed to the ply with the wires going toward the tail and down to the receiver. The canopy just clears the top of the Guardian. It works great. I can land much slower without having the Habu trying to roll off level as it nears a stall. We have a fairly short runway and now I don't run off into the grass before it stops.

Steve
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:34 PM
But often down to earth
Floater73's Avatar
Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
736 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpedraza View Post
Hi everyone, I am new using the guardian stabilizer; actually I am testing the system, but I have a question. In 2D mode, when I move my UAV in yaw axis the system compensate with rudder but also with aileron, but in roll axis only compensate with ailerons, is this correct??? I apreciate all the help that you can bring me.
That's how all of mine the way mine work. The first is caused by heading hold returning the plane to the remembered heading. The second is leveling.

If you take off in 2D mode the Guardian remembers the heading from the last time you move the ailerons or elevator. I may taxi out only using the rudder. So once I get the plane lined up for takeoff I move the ailerons to set the heading hold for takeoff. I can then add in some up elevator (by mixes on switches) and hit the throttle. The plane takes off using only the Guardian for control. Of course I only do this after several flights to be sure the Guardian is dialed in and I'm prepared to take over if something happens. It makes for a very scale looking takeoff.

Steve
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,398 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmons1a View Post
I turned OFF the 'Auto Turn Coordination', and when trying to correct a non control input generated roll, the rudder no longer moves opposing the aileons...in fact the rudder does not move at all!

I managed to work out that the 'Master Gain' does default to around 40%, and have setup a MIX on DX6i to give me -100% OFF / -0% MEDIUM and +80% gain on MIX1.

Is there a way that anyone knows of setting the default MASTER gain to something other than the 40%?
Now you have to provide the rudder co-ordination. Lol. I think "auto" in this context is short for automated. Now it's not automated anymore. :-)

Don't know of any method besides hooking up the master gain to a channel. It's been awhile since I touched the software, so check to see if you can adjust it in there.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,616 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floater73 View Post
I made a 1/16 ply board that sits right above the receiver. I made the fit just tight enough to hold the ply in place and added just a little hot glue. The board would have to be lifted to get to the receiver. The Guardian is velcroed to the ply with the wires going toward the tail and down to the receiver. The canopy just clears the top of the Guardian. It works great. I can land much slower without having the Habu trying to roll off level as it nears a stall. We have a fairly short runway and now I don't run off into the grass before it stops.

Steve
Steve,

Thanks. I have the receiver to behind the battery and moved it back further to leave room for a 5S. That area looks like the right (and only) place to install the Guardian.

I will give it a go.

Bill

EDIT: I just lowered the receiver in back of the battery by removing some foam and created a thin ply mounting surface for Guardian to sit. I also trimmed the aft under side of the canopy so the canopy doesn't pinch down on the Guardian when latched down.
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Last edited by Prof100; Sep 04, 2012 at 05:54 PM.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 10:18 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,616 Posts
Here you go. The Guardian installed in Habu using DX7 and AR500. The switching from 3D -- OFF -- 2D using the flap switch required some programming muscle.

I plugged the MOD lead in the gear slot (only slot reasonably available). Thank GAWD for google. I found the programming steps on the internet. Here are the steps:
bfugett -> RE: 3 position flaps with AR500 & DX7 (9/25/2010 6:25 PM)
After much angst I finally got three position flaps working on the gear channel of the AR500 using a DX7. I couldn't find it specifically documented anywhere so I wanted to put it here for others. Not hard to do (now) but don't ask me how these settings work because I'm new to this and just played with it (driving my wife crazy with the beeping; another topic) until I got it working...
Note: Flip the Flap and Gear switches to change the various rates
First we assign the 1 and 2 positions of the flap switch over to the gear channel:
[PROG.MIX1]
FLAP => GEAR ON
>RATE: > 100%
> 100%
SW:ON
OFFSET: 0
Then we assign the 0 position of the flap switch to gear:
[PROG.MIX2]
FLAP => GEAR OFF
>RATE: > 0%
> 100%
SW:FLAP0
OFFSET: 0
Then we disable the gear switch:
[PROG.MIX3]
GEAR => GEAR ON
>RATE: -100%
>-100%
SW:ON OFFSET: 0
You can test using the flap monitor page on the DX7. You should see the FLAP and GEAR channels both respond identically when the Flap switch is thrown, and the gear channel does nothing.

Below are the pictures of the installation.

In addition, I added a throttle kill switch by progam mixing the Aux 2 switch so down is enable and up is throttle disabled.

Program Mix 6
Aux2->Thro ON

Rate -125
-125

SW: ON
OFFSET: -125
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Last edited by Prof100; Sep 04, 2012 at 10:27 PM.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 08:30 AM
Aerial DP
United States, CA, Lakeside
Joined Apr 2010
912 Posts
I got my fpv maiden unr my belt. it has the guardian module for the osd pro,,,,,,, but got a question. when i flew in the calm, she was like skiing on glass, absolutely steady, stable and smooth. however, when the wind came up 10-20 mph, she got feeling really small. wobbled alot. In this movie it took me a little bit to get the guardian reset flat and level to my liking, somewhere around 11:00 it's all dialed in but you can see the not so much wing rock, just really delayed corrections. are my servos too slow? gain too low? it's right on the edge of oscillating on the elevator channel and i think that parts ok, take a look, give me some outside looking in tuning advice. 6:00 shows my guardian settings, there all cut in half from where it came set and i got a dial controlling the gain. most of this video had the gain knob cranked wide open
ZII FPV maiden (19 min 1 sec)
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:21 PM
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DanielMadrigal's Avatar
USA, GA, Byron
Joined Apr 2009
241 Posts
help

thanks for replying Silverexpress

I know that sounds a little crazy but it is what it is : ) the rudder servo works just fine if I connect it directly to the receiver so I think is the software. I have connected to the PC but I don't see anything that allows you to activate or deactivate a channel, I bought this GUARDIAN along with a SU 26M ( the guardian is for this plane) from graysonhobby.com I think there is something wrong with the software so I contact them to get the unit changed but they just told me that they can't help me that I needed to contact the manufacture to resolve this problem (I don't think I like their customer service) so I have send a messages to eagle tree but they haven't answer yet (I send the message 6 days ago)

I will make a video and post it on youtube maybe somebody can help by seeing what I'm talking about
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