HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by billpa, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Aug 27, 2012, 12:54 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,425 Posts
How did you get it to roll in 2D mode?

Second, using a reverser with a Spektrum radio is not advisable per Spektrum best practices.
Prof100 is offline Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: A123 2S 2500 mah wiring diagram
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 27, 2012, 12:59 PM
Registered User
Northern CA
Joined Apr 2003
124 Posts
So, I flipped the mode switch to the middle position - no stabilization. Then I inverted the aircraft, and while flying inverted, I flipped the mode switch into 2D. The result was a rapid instant roll into upright and level flight!

I am aware of the Spektrum statement. I use a specific brand that works with Spektrum - I can't recall now; will have to look it up later. Thus far through 5 flights with this inverter, I have had no issues.
sharam is offline Find More Posts by sharam
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2012, 01:01 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharam View Post
So, I flipped the mode switch to the middle position - no stabilization. Then I inverted the aircraft, and while flying inverted, I flipped the mode switch into 2D. The result was a rapid instant roll into upright and level flight!

I am aware of the Spektrum statement. I use a specific brand that works with Spektrum - I can't recall now; will have to look it up later. Thus far through 5 flights with this inverter, I have had no issues.
Thanks for the explanation on how you did the roll on 2D.

Glad to read you found a brand that Spektrum approves.
Prof100 is offline Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: A123 2S 2500 mah wiring diagram
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2012, 09:29 PM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Ripon
Joined Dec 2011
309 Posts
Well Guardian No.2 getting installed into my new PA Extra 260 just need it to stop raining so I can maiden it!!!
Simon2504 is offline Find More Posts by Simon2504
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 12:51 AM
Your customer
Silverexpress's Avatar
Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharam View Post
So, I flipped the mode switch to the middle position - no stabilization. Then I inverted the aircraft, and while flying inverted, I flipped the mode switch into 2D. The result was a rapid instant roll into upright and level flight!

I am aware of the Spektrum statement. I use a specific brand that works with Spektrum - I can't recall now; will have to look it up later. Thus far through 5 flights with this inverter, I have had no issues.
I've been able to roll my aircraft in 2D using the Center Stick Stabilize Mode, and adjusting the Center Stick Box Size to my liking.
With this feature 2D Stabilization is gradually lessened the further you move the control stick from center. Thus allowing you to roll or loop.

I have a video in this thread somewhere showing this.
Silverexpress is offline Find More Posts by Silverexpress
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 12:56 AM
Your customer
Silverexpress's Avatar
Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharam View Post
I just installed and successfully flew the guardian in my Hangar 9 Extra 260 78" span with a DLE 55 cc gas engine. I experimented in 3D with taking the plane through nice large turns, loops, rolls, and just lining up the plane for landings, and using 2D to come out of inverted or a vertical climb/dive. I am happy to say that the results are pretty impressive. Gain settings are pretty low around 25% - 30%. Anything more and I get large oscillations! Landing approach was pretty cool, line up the plane down the runway and watch the Guardian make all changes necessary to counteract gusts and crosswinds and bring her in! Pretty cool stuff actually. I was using a DX-18 with a AR7200 Spektrum receiver. Ailerons are on a Y connector and Elevator servos are on a Y with a reverser on one elevator servo.

The 2D mode was remarkably fast in uprighting the plane from an inverted mode. My buddy and I were both quite surprised by the very rapid roll that plane performed once I activated the 2D mode. This is a great learning tool for beginners and a great tool for advanced pilots to help with various gusty and stiff cross winds.

Before using the Guardian in my Extra, I had installed it in a smaller electric plane just to learn how it would need to be set up. After successfully using it in my smaller electric, I tried the large Extra! I

One thing I noticed is that the unit does not like expo settings. With an expo setting of only 10% on aileron, in 3D, it appeared that the plane would not follow my stick commands very well on aileron. Once I removed the expo, it was all fine. Has anyone else experienced this as well?

I will try it in my larger warbirds next.

I did a lot of vibration isolation. I am also a heli pilot so I used some of the gel tape that we use in installing our heli gyros to install the Guardian. I have no vibration related issues.
Thanks for sharing. Makes me look forward to installing one of my Guardians in a Top Flite GE Spitfire for a winter project. :-)
Silverexpress is offline Find More Posts by Silverexpress
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:23 AM
Registered User
France, Bourgogne, Nevers
Joined Feb 2012
524 Posts
A little help for a learner with travel and trim.

I've a couple questions about a new, first time setup, maiden flight. If covered before, --sorry. A lot to look through.
1)About travel:
With all pots set for max and remote gain enabled and set at 50%,2D or 3D, elevator excursion is too small, very small compared to aileron, which is about right. I thought it might be a mechanical issue- linkage arm length- but it's not. If you compare disc rotation, the aileron servo discs (arms) are moving a lot further. Is this typical? What to do? My eye says it's not enough travel to control the aircraft in pitch, unless you crank in 100%, and even then---.
2) About trim:
If level flight/trims are set on the ground for what I guess will be cruise speed attitude, and then trim is changed in flight because I need to slow to soaring speed and circle in a thermal, will I be fighting the gyro? If, after retrimming, I release the stick and let the aircraft stabilize, will it continue to turn and hold the new trimmed attitude? (Heading hold off?) If not, how can I do this?
Thanks for any help.
wazoo22 is offline Find More Posts by wazoo22
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:49 AM
Your customer
Silverexpress's Avatar
Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazoo22 View Post
I've a couple questions about a new, first time setup, maiden flight. If covered before, --sorry. A lot to look through.
1)About travel:
With all pots set for max and remote gain enabled and set at 50%,2D or 3D, elevator excursion is too small, very small compared to aileron, which is about right. I thought it might be a mechanical issue- linkage arm length- but it's not. If you compare disc rotation, the aileron servo discs (arms) are moving a lot further. Is this typical? What to do? My eye says it's not enough travel to control the aircraft in pitch, unless you crank in 100%, and even then---.
2) About trim:
If level flight/trims are set on the ground for what I guess will be cruise speed attitude, and then trim is changed in flight because I need to slow to soaring speed and circle in a thermal, will I be fighting the gyro? If, after retrimming, I release the stick and let the aircraft stabilize, will it continue to turn and hold the new trimmed attitude? (Heading hold off?) If not, how can I do this?
Thanks for any help.
With the gains cranked up all the way, it must be the anti-flutter function kicking in to lower the reactions when you giggle it about.

Lower your gains to about 30% and test fly it. This is a dynamic system that needs appropriate feedback not an earthquake induced by your arm.
Silverexpress is offline Find More Posts by Silverexpress
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:50 AM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,738 Posts
Are you saying that with POTs turned all the way up to max. that elevator travel is less in 2D and 3D than with Guardian turned off?

Also with remote gain connected and gain set to provide same as centered servo you should have max. servo deflection in 3D . I still say it is simplier to see gain setting using a servo and that a spare receiver and servos makes it simplier to see how Guardian reacts.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=954


Added: If I were setting Guardian up for a glider I would set Straight and Level to in fact be right or left rudder trimed(set) for a slow circle and elevator trimed for mininum sink and thermal in 2D mode.

Charles
everydayflyer is offline Find More Posts by everydayflyer
Last edited by everydayflyer; Aug 28, 2012 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 04:37 AM
Registered User
France, Bourgogne, Nevers
Joined Feb 2012
524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Are you saying that with POTs turned all the way up to max. that elevator travel is less in 2D and 3D than with Guardian turned off?
Yes. A lot less. If I point the fuselage straight down, the elevator "up"excursion is still about one third to one half that obtainable by control transmitter input, and not enough to prevent a --er, non-survivable arrival.

Also with remote gain connected and gain set to provide same as centered servo you should have max. servo deflection in 3D . I still say it is simpler to see gain setting using a servo and that a spare receiver and servos makes it simplier to see how Guardian reacts.
I agree. Since I have a v-tail setup, I need two servos to see elevator travel. I watch the regular installed ones, and the max elevator travel is about 30 degrees of disc rotation each way. Max disc rotation using control trans can be twice that.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=954


Added: If I were setting Guardian up for a glider I would set Straight and Level to in fact be right or left rudder trimed(set) for a slow circle and elevator trimed for mininum sink and thermal in 2D mode.

Charles
Not sure I agree, but will think about it. One really needs two basic modes- thermalling, as you describe, and inter-thermal cruise- straight as possible, higher glide speed.

I just want to know if trim conflicts with stabilizing---how do they interact?
wazoo22 is offline Find More Posts by wazoo22
Last edited by wazoo22; Aug 29, 2012 at 05:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 04:58 AM
Registered User
France, Bourgogne, Nevers
Joined Feb 2012
524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
With the gains cranked up all the way, it must be the anti-flutter function kicking in to lower the reactions when you giggle it about.

Lower your gains to about 30% and test fly it. This is a dynamic system that needs appropriate feedback not an earthquake induced by your arm.
Nope. Not what's happening. Aint no earthquake, just pitch movement to test. The ailerons work perfectly. It's only the elevators/rudder using internal (stabilizer) mixing for the v-tail that seem to have not enough travel. I'm beginning to suspect the v-tail mixing, or that low pitch surface movement is normal.
The manual suggests to use full gain on the onboard pots and use remote (master) gain on the tx, to begin at a low gain level and creep up to the oscillation point, then back off the pot for the axis that oscillates, do it again, etc.-- and that's what I'm doing.
wazoo22 is offline Find More Posts by wazoo22
Last edited by wazoo22; Aug 29, 2012 at 05:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:35 AM
Your customer
Silverexpress's Avatar
Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
1,384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazoo22 View Post
The manual suggests to use full gain on the onboard pots and use remote (master) gain on the tx, to begin at a low gain level and creep up to the oscillation point, then back off the pot for the axis that oscillates, do it again, etc.-- and that's what I'm doing.
Ah ha...

By hand you check only the direction of the Guardian's throws to ensure that the control surfaces oppose the direction of yaw, pitch, and roll.

In the air is a part of how you adjust the master gain (using a knob, slider, or aux/gear servo extents channel). You fly at a low master gain, and gradually increase it -note that you can land/ adjust/fly/land/adjust/fly...etc whichever is safest) until you visually see oscillation occuring (I'd suggest you do this on a windless day too, and in a straight line flight path). Once you see oscillations, you turn down the master gain -

You have to fly inorder to verify these adjustments, and not by hand (holding the plane an gyrating it about). Using a knob or a slider for the Master gain makes this easy. Using an aux, or the gear channel for the master gain will require you to land the plane and make adjustments to the servo travel extents in your radio's menu (this is how I've done it).

Can you refer us to the page in the manual where you are getting these directions? I ask this so we can have EagleTree reword it if it is confusing, or maybe I may have missed it myself.
---------------------------------
On a similar note: if you shake the Guardian you might induce the following feature:

Oscillation Suppression (See page 8)
To help reduce pilot workload, the Guardian will automatically scale down the Overall Gain when it detects oscillations. To do this, it incrementally scales the Overall Gain down to a minimum of 50% of its currently set value. After the oscillations are eliminated, it will slowly increase the Overall Gain back up to 100% of its set value or until oscillations are detected again, whichever comes first.
If oscillations occur and subsequently disappear, it is recommended that you slowly reduce your gains to prevent this from happening in
the future.
Do not increase the Overall Gain after an oscillation has been suppressed, since doing so will only cause more oscillations until the
Oscillation Suppression is unable to reduce the Overall Gain sufficiently to be effective.
Silverexpress is offline Find More Posts by Silverexpress
Last edited by Silverexpress; Aug 29, 2012 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:46 AM
Money Shot
United States, CA, Lakeside
Joined Apr 2010
904 Posts
on one of my planes, Telink Multifun doing it that way worked fine then once i found it working around mid gain, turned all the pots down to 50% and man, the thing went from kinda working to unbelievably solid.

When i was reading the manual, part way in it talks about how the gain knob affects the behavior and then it states, this is assuming the dials are at 50%. Weird

went from this
multifun full flight (14 min 2 sec)


to this
multifun guardian dialed (2 min 42 sec)


at first i honestly couldn't tell what this thing was doing to the controls, but the more i fly it the more it's the best thing since lipos. little 22oz epp plane grew up overnight. Can;t wait to fly it through the camera so can really smooth it all out. los flying is always a bit rough. The heading hold part is weird, you bank the plane and think it's gonna turn and she just knife edges ya
Kloner is offline Find More Posts by Kloner
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:29 AM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
Ah ha...

By hand you check only the direction of the Guardians throws to ensure that the control surfaces oppose the direction of yaw, pitch, and roll.

In the air is where you adjust the master gain (using a knob, slider, or aux/gear servo extents channel). You fly at a low master gain, and gradually increase it until you visually see oscillation occuring (I'd suggest you do this on a windless day, and in a straight line flight path). Once you see oscillations, you turn down the master gain. But you have to do these adjustments in flight. Not by hand.

Can you refer me to the page in the manual where you are getting these directions?
---------------------------------
On a similar note: if you shake the Guardian you might induce the following feature:

Oscillation Suppression (See page 8)
To help reduce pilot workload, the Guardian will automatically scale down the Overall Gain when it detects oscillations. To do this, it incrementally scales the Overall Gain down to a minimum of 50% of its currently set value. After the oscillations are eliminated, it will slowly increase the Overall Gain back up to 100% of its set value or until oscillations are detected again, whichever comes first.
If oscillations occur and subsequently disappear, it is recommended that you slowly reduce your gains to prevent this from happening in
the future.




Do not increase the Overall Gain after an oscillation has been suppressed, since doing so will only cause more oscillations until the
Oscillation Suppression is unable to reduce the Overall Gain sufficiently to be effective.
I need to dial back my gains on my delta. I had them at 50 when I first used the Guardian in the plane but moved up to 75 + and it is now wagging. That is it oscillates in high alpha by wagging the wings.
Prof100 is offline Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: A123 2S 2500 mah wiring diagram
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 11:39 AM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
8,439 Posts
Kloner,
(wait, Kloner? Hey bud! its DD66 of mycoolheli/mycoolrc)

There is a coordinated turn function in there I think you can turn on.
I like the Rate mode myself though. The HH mode unlocks when you touch the sticks so it to me feels like it "jerks" at times

I have not directly tested it myself but I thought there was NOT a direct relation from the dials to the gain channel. I THOUGHT that the gain channel was a multiplier of the gain with a max value of 2X. Maybe that would be a good thing for me to play with.
I'm about to move my Guardian to it's 3rd plane for more testing. Maybe I'll play with that cause there is always some discussion about that.
Melnic is offline Find More Posts by Melnic
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Can I control Guardian stabilizer with DX6i? njwxyz Eagle Tree Systems 9 Jun 02, 2014 12:17 PM
Discussion GPS 2D Plots incomplete, 3D OK jackerbes Eagle Tree Systems 1 Oct 23, 2011 09:42 PM
Discussion Premier 1st generation, Gen 2 Vector unit, 2D or 3D motor unit lanternfly RC Kites 0 Oct 05, 2011 09:42 PM
Data 2d or 3d wing ribs? Marty7n Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 56 Sep 22, 2011 04:06 PM
Discussion 3View to 3D to 2d techasist CAD/CAM 0 Mar 27, 2011 12:19 AM