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Old Aug 22, 2012, 11:57 AM
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br & chewy - Thanks for the clarification about powering the Guardian. It should have been clear that the power from the UBEC was the source but got confused by the numerous wiring connections between the Lipo & the RX when using the SPC as well as a UBEC.

Jed
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Huntsville, AL
Joined Oct 2007
174 Posts
Perceived Guardian instability problem resolved

For history see post #1578

I think I have resolved my problem with my perceived control instability with the Guardian.

I had never installed the Data Loader on my computer until Eagletree asked me to send the .txt setup file. I installed the program and connected the USB cable to the Guardian. While I was checking the other setup features of the program, I noticed that there was an adjustment for servo limits. I was surprised to see that the default was well beyond the normal limits of servo throw (+125%). I suppose that is done to accommodate the worse case limits that might be expected from the setup on a particular plane. I decided to adjust all of the limits to closely match the transmitter limits that I setup for my PA-12 plane.

I just completed an extensive flight test where I repeatedly tried to induce the instability problem that I could easily induce previously. I was never able to cause the instability. The plane always quickly recovered from the snap-spin maneuver. I now think that with the servo limits at the Guardian default settings, when the mode switch was changed from disable to 2D, both aileron servos and the rudder servo were simultaneously driven to the stall limit resulting in about 3 or 4 amps of stall current. This probably reduced the Guardian voltage to the re-boot level and control of the plane was temporally lost. I don't know how much time is required for the Guardian to re-boot but it might have had to do more than one re-boot before the disable switch was recognized and the voltage stabilized.

The problem was mine. I should have loaded the Data Logger and investigated the Guardian features before posting my problem on the forum.

Eagle Tree Support was very helpful in resolving this issue.

Mike
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 03:49 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoeHillFlyer View Post
For history see post #1578

I think I have resolved my problem with my perceived control instability with the Guardian.

I had never installed the Data Loader on my computer until Eagletree asked me to send the .txt setup file. I installed the program and connected the USB cable to the Guardian. While I was checking the other setup features of the program, I noticed that there was an adjustment for servo limits. I was surprised to see that the default was well beyond the normal limits of servo throw (+125%). I suppose that is done to accommodate the worse case limits that might be expected from the setup on a particular plane. I decided to adjust all of the limits to closely match the transmitter limits that I setup for my PA-12 plane.

I just completed an extensive flight test where I repeatedly tried to induce the instability problem that I could easily induce previously. I was never able to cause the instability. The plane always quickly recovered from the snap-spin maneuver. I now think that with the servo limits at the Guardian default settings, when the mode switch was changed from disable to 2D, both aileron servos and the rudder servo were simultaneously driven to the stall limit resulting in about 3 or 4 amps of stall current. This probably reduced the Guardian voltage to the re-boot level and control of the plane was temporally lost. I don't know how much time is required for the Guardian to re-boot but it might have had to do more than one re-boot before the disable switch was recognized and the voltage stabilized.

The problem was mine. I should have loaded the Data Logger and investigated the Guardian features before posting my problem on the forum.

Eagle Tree Support was very helpful in resolving this issue.

Mike

Mike,

It's good to read your problem is solved. What did you set you servo limits to in the Guardian?

Bill
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 05:31 PM
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United States, NM, Carlsbad
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I have installed a Guardian in a Precision Areobatics addiction X. I have flown 4 packs now on the guardian and in 2d mode everything is ok. However in 3d mode I have an issue. When in straight and level trimmed flight when 3d is engaged the plane will aileron roll to the right or clockwise. I have completly removed my right thumb from the stick so I know that I'm not the cause of the roll. It does the same thing in knife edge. Guardian allows the plane to roll clockwise out of knife edge. I have adjusted the gain some but that did not help. Guardian is mounted on velcro next to the receiver and I fly Futaba. Also when I put the plane into a hover and engage 3d mode it will nose over to the right requiring a constant left rudder input to maintain the hover. The addiction x is a very easy airplane to hover so I do not know what is going on. I bought the guardian to help me get over my fear of hovering close to the ground so hopefully it will be able to help me acomplish this with the proper adjustments.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 05:44 PM
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First, eliminate the velcro variable unless it is dual lock. The Guardian needs to be firmly attached to the plane. Use two sided servo tape, hot glue or whatever.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 07:25 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyflyer View Post
I have installed a Guardian in a Precision Areobatics addiction X. I have flown 4 packs now on the guardian and in 2d mode everything is ok. However in 3d mode I have an issue. When in straight and level trimmed flight when 3d is engaged the plane will aileron roll to the right or clockwise. I have completly removed my right thumb from the stick so I know that I'm not the cause of the roll. It does the same thing in knife edge. Guardian allows the plane to roll clockwise out of knife edge. I have adjusted the gain some but that did not help. Guardian is mounted on velcro next to the receiver and I fly Futaba. Also when I put the plane into a hover and engage 3d mode it will nose over to the right requiring a constant left rudder input to maintain the hover. The addiction x is a very easy airplane to hover so I do not know what is going on. I bought the guardian to help me get over my fear of hovering close to the ground so hopefully it will be able to help me acomplish this with the proper adjustments.
Adjust your plane so it flies with Guardian off using no trim on the transmitter. Then see if this helps the problem.

I think what is happening is that you have some trim dialed in. In 3D mode Guardian will interpret right trim as a command to continue rolling slowly to the right.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 07:34 PM
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You also may not have enough gain.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:04 PM
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I now notice that when I try to reset the level flight and trim (1 toggle of the mode sw within 15 sec of power up) I do not get a twitch of the ailerons. I tried about a dozen times. I even tried increasing the end points from 100 to 125 on the channel that controls the mode switch.When sitting level on a table there is a deflection of the ailerons and elevator when the mode switch is put into 2d or 3d. Thats the reason I tried the level and trim reset
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Adjust your plane so it flies with Guardian off using no trim on the transmitter. Then see if this helps the problem.

I think what is happening is that you have some trim dialed in. In 3D mode Guardian will interpret right trim as a command to continue rolling slowly to the right.
Your right I do have about 3 clicks of right trim on the ailerons. Is the fact that I have some trim the reason that I can't do the level and trim reset?
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:13 PM
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And I guess a follow up question would be there should be no sub trim also, correct?
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:36 PM
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Vernon, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyflyer View Post
I now notice that when I try to reset the level flight and trim (1 toggle of the mode sw within 15 sec of power up) I do not get a twitch of the ailerons. I tried about a dozen times. I even tried increasing the end points from 100 to 125 on the channel that controls the mode switch.When sitting level on a table there is a deflection of the ailerons and elevator when the mode switch is put into 2d or 3d. Thats the reason I tried the level and trim reset
Just to confirm that you are toggling from 2D to 3D & back once, not just to OFF & back.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:40 PM
Rick
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Originally Posted by luckyflyer View Post
Your right I do have about 3 clicks of right trim on the ailerons. Is the fact that I have some trim the reason that I can't do the level and trim reset?
I don't see where the trim would affect setting level but you need to get rid of the trim anyway so try it.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:46 PM
Rick
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Originally Posted by luckyflyer View Post
And I guess a follow up question would be there should be no sub trim also, correct?
If Guardian sees any deviation from neutral it interprets it as a command to move the plane, at least in 3D direct rate mode.

It's good practice to make mechanical adjustments on your surfaces and fly with no trim even without a Guardian. Guardian requires us not to be lazy on this.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
Just to confirm that you are toggling from 2D to 3D & back once, not just to OFF & back.
2d to 3d and then to off, correct?
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyflyer View Post
And I guess a follow up question would be there should be no sub trim also, correct?
Having trim and sub-trim seems to be ok. Trim the plane so it flys dead nuts straight with guardian off. Land and do a "Reset Trims Only". Page 9 in the instructions. See if that helps. I was having the same problem and that was the fix.
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