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Old Aug 20, 2012, 03:26 PM
Thumbflyer
IEATSRT's Avatar
Manning, AB, Canada
Joined Nov 2009
1,284 Posts
Need some help setting up dual ailerons. My undrestanding it is best to let the guardian do the mixing for you by turning on "onboard dual aileron mixing". I'll have mod lead from guarding into aux 1 on reciever (to control 3d, off and 2d modes) and second aileron lead into aux 2 on reciever? Question, when flying with stabilization off does the guarding still do the required mixing?
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 03:37 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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michael clyde

Post such as your's is why I have almost completly tried to stop helping in this thread even though I feel obligated to as a beta tester.

I fly some 3D ,not great but some and my son is a great 3D flyer and no 3D planes either of us own will hold a vertical hover without ail. corrections. Rubber, evlebator and throttle alone will not do it.

If you have one that will hold a perfect hover with ali. at netural then treasure and guard it.

Charles.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 04:04 PM
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Joined Oct 2007
174 Posts
Flight results

I had a crash using the Guardian. The plane went into a tail spin from a snap roll. I repaired the plane and tested to find out what caused the crash.

I flew two full flights of about 15 minutes each. I flew take-offs and landings and normal flight, mostly in the 2D mode, and the stabilization worked very well doing these normal flight functions. Then I decided to do snap-rolls in the disabled mode and then switch to the 2D mode to see if it would recover. It didn't recover. I did a left snap-roll into a tailspin then switched to 2D. The plane continued to spiral down to the left. I applied right aileron and the plane continued to the left for a couple of seconds and switched to full right aileron. I released the aileron and applied up elevator...no response so I switched to the disable mode and I was able to recover before impact. I was able to repeat this several times during both flights. Once I had flown in the disable mode, I could switch back to 2D and everything worked fine.

Eagletree has been notified of my tests but has not replied. It has been about three weeks.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoeHillFlyer View Post
I had a crash using the Guardian. The plane went into a tail spin from a snap roll. I repaired the plane and tested to find out what caused the crash.

I flew two full flights of about 15 minutes each. I flew take-offs and landings and normal flight, mostly in the 2D mode, and the stabilization worked very well doing these normal flight functions. Then I decided to do snap-rolls in the disabled mode and then switch to the 2D mode to see if it would recover. It didn't recover. I did a left snap-roll into a tailspin then switched to 2D. The plane continued to spiral down to the left. I applied right aileron and the plane continued to the left for a couple of seconds and switched to full right aileron. I released the aileron and applied up elevator...no response so I switched to the disable mode and I was able to recover before impact. I was able to repeat this several times during both flights. Once I had flown in the disable mode, I could switch back to 2D and everything worked fine.

Eagletree has been notified of my tests but has not replied. It has been about three weeks.
Congratulations, it reads like you have been able to defeat 2D wing leveling doing a left snap roll and a tailspin.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 04:26 PM
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Joined Oct 2007
174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Congratulations, it reads like you have been able to defeat 2D wing leveling doing a left snap roll and a tailspin.
Of course the point is that if someone purchased the Guardian for the purpose of saving his plane in case he became disorientated in a snap roll or other maneuver, he might not get the desired results. The first time it happened to me it was a surprise and I crashed the plane for lack of altitude.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 04:27 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Ripon
Joined Dec 2011
309 Posts
Oh my, I didnt realise my question would cause such a stir!! Dont think Ill ask any more and no offence michael but i can read the manual and all the technical descriptions between the different 3D modes, it was physical effects on the aircraft I was enquiring about
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 04:29 PM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
8,439 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoeHillFlyer View Post
I had a crash using the Guardian. The plane went into a tail spin from a snap roll. I repaired the plane and tested to find out what caused the crash.

I flew two full flights of about 15 minutes each. I flew take-offs and landings and normal flight, mostly in the 2D mode, and the stabilization worked very well doing these normal flight functions. Then I decided to do snap-rolls in the disabled mode and then switch to the 2D mode to see if it would recover. It didn't recover. I did a left snap-roll into a tailspin then switched to 2D. The plane continued to spiral down to the left. I applied right aileron and the plane continued to the left for a couple of seconds and switched to full right aileron. I released the aileron and applied up elevator...no response so I switched to the disable mode and I was able to recover before impact. I was able to repeat this several times during both flights. Once I had flown in the disable mode, I could switch back to 2D and everything worked fine.

Eagletree has been notified of my tests but has not replied. It has been about three weeks.
Is your Mode channel connected and enabled/disabled through a switch or are you using the Default Flight mode opton set to 2D?

In other words do you have:

2 switches?
2D/3D mode
And
Disable/Enable (or it could be a 3 position switch Disable/Gain1/Gain2)

So your leaving the 2D/3D switch alone and then your flipping the enable/disable switch?

Or

are you using 1 switch and the Guardian is set to Default Flight mode = 2D mode when mode input is not connected?
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoeHillFlyer View Post
Of course the point is that if someone purchased the Guardian for the purpose of saving his plane in case he became disorientated in a snap roll or other maneuver, he might not get the desired results. The first time it happened to me it was a surprise and I crashed the plane for lack of altitude.
Remember, the Guardian cannot create a aerodynamic plane if the plane's attitude doesn't permit the control surface work. I watched one of the better pilots put a turbine jet in a flat spin but that airplane could not recover no matter what he did with roll, pitch and yaw or throttle position. It just flatspinned on to ground. A Guardian would not have saved it.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 05:37 PM
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Joined Oct 2007
174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melnic View Post
Is your Mode channel connected and enabled/disabled through a switch or are you using the Default Flight mode opton set to 2D?

In other words do you have:

2 switches?
2D/3D mode
And
Disable/Enable (or it could be a 3 position switch Disable/Gain1/Gain2)

So your leaving the 2D/3D switch alone and then your flipping the enable/disable switch?

Or

are you using 1 switch and the Guardian is set to Default Flight mode = 2D mode when mode input is not connected?

I have a 3 position switch for mode select. 3D/disable/2D. I was flying in the disable mode. I did a snap roll into a spin then switched to the 2D mode to test the Guardian's ability to recover.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 05:41 PM
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Joined Oct 2007
174 Posts
After I repaired the plane from the first crash, I flew two flights and multiple times I could repeat the sequence and always recover when I switched back to disable mode so the plane wasn't in a flat spin. It always responded to my input in the disable mode.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 06:43 PM
Team Wack-a-Mole
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Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoeHillFlyer View Post
I have a 3 position switch for mode select. 3D/disable/2D. I was flying in the disable mode. I did a snap roll into a spin then switched to the 2D mode to test the Guardian's ability to recover.
ok, I forgot you could turn it off with the mode switch, Mine's set up to disable it with a -100% gain on another switch.
I was wonding if the bug you are seeing was related to not having the mode plug in.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 05:08 AM
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Iceland
Joined Jul 2004
36 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by agbjarn View Post
Yesterday I installed one of my two new stabilizers in my UltraStick 25e with flaps and separate ailerons that can be used as crow brakes. Everything worked fine except for brownouts. I am using the Ultimate BEC. The servos seem to use much current when starting to move. I have to take a look on this problem. (Aurora 9 Tx and 7ch Rx).

Then I installed the other stabilizer in an unmodified Bixler-1. There was considerable wind and without stabilization the model blew around like aš leaf. With 2D or 3D it was like on rails! No problems with brownout in this model. (Futaba 9c Tx and Hitec 5ch PPM Rx).

Remote 3-position mode switch, but no remote gain control in both cases.

Agust
Iceland
Since I installed the Guardian 2D 3D in my UltraStick 25e and Bixler I have not noticed any problems. I am using about 50% gain in both cases, and the default setup The Ultra Stick 25e has dual ailerons and flaps that I use as crow brakes.

I have used the Bixler to teach model flying mainly using 2D, and even in high winds. See the horizontal windsock and wind speed meter here: http://frettavefur.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?id=6573. My brother is here practicing harrier-like landings due to the high wind. This is only his fourth flight after starting to learn flying, and he has never used a flight simulator!

Guardian 2D 3D will be probably in most of my planes in future to enable me to fly in high winds.

The only thing I know of that can be a problem is brownout if the voltage drops, even for a very short time, below 3.5 volts. I had this problem in the UltraStick 25e and the solution was to install a more powerful U-BEC. I prefer 6 volts rather than 5 volts from the U-BEC.

Agust
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 04:06 PM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
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United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
846 Posts
a quote from billpa in answer to my question about aileron unlocking all axis on 8/13/12
[quote]
Hi Michael,

This is expected behavior at this time. The Rudder has the ability to be locked / unlocked separately from the Ail / Elevator channels in 3D Heading Hold Mode. This was intended to help with Knife Edges and other Rudder intensive maneuvers. For now, if you're in a hover and attempt to enter a torque roll, the other axes' locks will be lost as soon as you actuate the Aileron channel. We will look into potentially finding a way to make the Rudder's selective unlock behavior apply to the Ailerons as a feature in the future.
***************
[end quote]
it seems that it does what it does, not because ailerons are needed to hold a vertical line but because e/t did it to help hold in knife edges and such and didn't go any farther than to apply it to the yaw axis.
so the people that do not know much about 3d won't be mislead by peoples perception {i'm not talking about billpa} of what's happening, (opinions and mis perceptions don't change the dynamics of flight) when hovering, the closer you get to a vertical line, the faster a plane will torque roll on it's own, without any input from the pilot. some people don't like torque roll and apply opposite input to stop the rolling. the other way to stop it is to lean it back or forward on the vertical axis. the farther you get from a vertical axis the slower the torque rolling will get until it stops. as long as a plane is in a vertical line and there is no aileron differential (meaning when the starboard aileron goes up x amount of degrees, the port aileron goes down the same amount of degrees) a plane will rotate on it's horizontal axis all day long without affecting the vertical axis but,
as soon as the plane starts coming out of a vertical line aileron input can help facilitate the "falling out/off" scenario.
i'm glad e/t is thinking of remedying this because when flying straight and level in 3d hh mode and you do a roll... the same thing happens.

michael clyde


simon,
nothing you asked or said caused the response you received. the statement did not attempt to answer your question, it just gave a personal opinion on how you should deal with the unknown and a mis-perception of how things really work. i truly do not believe your question was at the root of the cause.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 04:34 PM
Registered User
Sandy Springs, GA
Joined Jul 2008
515 Posts
michael, there is a hard reason why the elevator and rudder must be "unlocked" in 3D mode when the ailerons are moved. In ordinary flight, moving the ailerons will cause yaw and attitude movements. If the elevator and rudder are not unlocked in 3D, they will fight the ailerons causing unpredictable movement. I have been using a GY401 gyro on the rudder of my tail draggers for the last two years. I take off in heading hold mode on rudder. As soon as I leave the ground I have to turn off the gyro. If I don't, I have all sorts of problems with the gyro fighting me all the way. Twice I have done this. Believe me you do not want to experience this situation.

Bruce
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 04:45 PM
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ForceFedDSM's Avatar
Massachusetts
Joined Jun 2008
1,715 Posts
I just installed a Guardian in my 3dhs edge 540 and the gain dials on the unit are set to 50% to start. I also have the gain wire connected to my rx, what would be a good initial setting for my gain channel in the radio(using the dx8 slider knob) ?
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