HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by billpa, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Aug 19, 2012, 12:14 PM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
mchldpy's Avatar
United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
656 Posts
simon,
i think you can only (with a 3-way switch) choose one or the other.
hint -
from what i've figured out (i think)
2d mode - is the "auto-level" aka "recovery" mode. it is working off of the accelerometer
3d mode - is working off of the 3-axis gyro
hh control in each mode increases the gain for it's mode
in the software on the 3d page at the bottom "derivative gain is the overall gain between 2d and 3d modes
disclaimer - i could be wrong...

i don't think there is a magnetometer or an interactive gyro, one or the other of which is required for for true heading, which is complicated i hear. that's why i think the hh sliders are just increasing the gain values in their own modes

michael clyde
mchldpy is offline Find More Posts by mchldpy
Last edited by mchldpy; Aug 19, 2012 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 19, 2012, 12:49 PM
Buffalos have wings
Tatonka's Avatar
Vancouver Washington
Joined Nov 2007
2,030 Posts
Finally got to maiden my Edge with the Guardian, everything worked pretty much as expected, would hold a knife edge in 3d mode with no imput, ect.... But I wanted to try it with HH disabled / direct rate still enabled in 3d mode .. I noticed once I turned off HH on the computer, the Artificial Horizon Indicator no longer works, it is frozen....Turn HH in 3d back on and the AHI works fine again.....Is this normal? ....Was hoping someone could verify.
Tatonka is offline Find More Posts by Tatonka
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2012, 03:48 PM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Ripon
Joined Dec 2011
309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchldpy View Post
simon,
i think you can only (with a 3-way switch) choose one or the other.
hint -
from what i've figured out (i think)
2d mode - is the "auto-level" aka "recovery" mode. it is working off of the accelerometer
3d mode - is working off of the 3-axis gyro
hh control in each mode increases the gain for it's mode
in the software on the 3d page at the bottom "derivative gain is the overall gain between 2d and 3d modes
disclaimer - i could be wrong...

i don't think there is a magnetometer or an interactive gyro, one or the other of which is required for for true heading, which is complicated i hear. that's why i think the hh sliders are just increasing the gain values in their own modes

michael clyde
So you don't know the difference between 3D heading hold or 3D direct rate either lol I should have made my question a bit clearer I think ;-)
Simon2504 is offline Find More Posts by Simon2504
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2012, 05:54 PM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
mchldpy's Avatar
United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
656 Posts
THE DIFFERENCE


3d hh will attempt to hold the last position the plane was in when the sticks went back to center... ie put your plane in a knife edge and as long as the plane is capable (a 3d capable plane) it will hold it in a knife edge orientation and you can do circles or 8's just by moving just the yaw axis.
note when moving any axis other than the yaw it will dis-engage all 3 axis and will not take control and hold until you release the sticks again. not so when touching only the yaw axis.

direct rate
direct rate depending on the amount you have the slider set to will allow you to move the sticks all the way to max and preset the the angular velocity which in this software is measured in rotational increments of 1/60th of a minute.

sorry i didn't understand your question fully

michael clyde
mchldpy is offline Find More Posts by mchldpy
Last edited by mchldpy; Aug 19, 2012 at 05:56 PM. Reason: neglected moniker
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2012, 06:01 PM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
mchldpy's Avatar
United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
656 Posts
tato,
i was able to replicate your problem. to stop the ah from freezing up, on the first page set the default flight mode to 2d instead of 3d.



This customer was awarded 1 point for... wait this isn't hobbyking.

michael clyde
mchldpy is offline Find More Posts by mchldpy
Last edited by mchldpy; Aug 19, 2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: moniker thing again
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:07 AM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,369 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon2504 View Post
one thing Im not getting to grips with yet and yes I have read the manual and yes Im thinking I may be being a bit thick but Im a little confused about the 2 3D modes (heading hold and direct rate) i didnt feel much difference between them in my Galaxy and are they both supposed to be used together of just one of them selected, can anyone shed some light on it for me in simple speak lol


Problem as I see it.

If someone who has installed,stup ,adjusted ,flown the Guardian 2D/3D successfully in their model(s) gives their description of these functions others will controdict them..

I have posted several times how I trimmed my models, how I set / adjusted gains etc. and I have been corrected each and every time. Makes me wonder how I was able to use the Guardian 2D/3D with next to no instructions and be so extremly please with its' erformance?

Wait I remember I di d not even bother using most of the advanced feactures as the basic ones work great and I have always belived one should start simple and learn as you go.

I read post which seem to be disapointed that Guardian 2/3D will not let one do torque rolls by applying Ail. while Guard holds the plane vertical .( The lack of ability to do this is explained in the Manual) How can Guardian be expected to hold aircraft vertical which requires use of all control surfaces while letting the pilot use the Ail. to roll the plane. This would in my opinion be very similiar to pireo compensation as used in heli controls ( FBL and advanced Gyro units). Wait perhaps Guardin can be programed to do this. I guess my point is to start with a simple setup and learn the basics and then build toward your ideal .

Charles
everydayflyer is online now Find More Posts by everydayflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:27 AM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
15,878 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Problem as I see it.

If someone who has installed,stup ,adjusted ,flown the Guardian 2D/3D successfully in their model(s) gives their description of these functions others will controdict them..

I have posted several times how I trimmed my models, how I set / adjusted gains etc. and I have been corrected each and every time. Makes me wonder how I was able to use the Guardian 2D/3D with next to no instructions and be so extremly please with its' erformance?

Wait I remember I di d not even bother using most of the advanced feactures as the basic ones work great and I have always belived one should start simple and learn as you go.

I read post which seem to be disapointed that Guardian 2/3D will not let one do torque rolls by applying Ail. while Guard holds the plane vertical .( The lack of ability to do this is explained in the Manual) How can Guardian be expected to hold aircraft vertical which requires use of all control surfaces while letting the pilot use the Ail. to roll the plane. This would in my opinion be very similiar to pireo compensation as used in heli controls ( FBL and advanced Gyro units). Wait perhaps Guardin can be programed to do this. I guess my point is to start with a simple setup and learn the basics and then build toward your ideal .

Charles
Charles,

I agree. I was the first at my flying club with a Guardian. I installed it in 16 oz. Superfly. On a day when even the big gassers were not flying because of the 30 mph winds and gusts I flew my plane with the Guardian and showed how it easily flew in 2D and 3D mode and OFF. When turned OFF the lightweight plane was blown around like a leaf in the wind. This sold three other guys to buy a Guardian.

Purchaser #1 -- He crashed his plane on his first flight with the Guardian because he didn't have the aileron gyro correction going in the right direction and he had the gains at roll, pitch and yaw set to 100%. So, it quickly crashed. I wasn't there to help him but I straightened it out for him on his second attempt. Gains were set to 50% and defaults were used on all other attributes of the Guardian.

Purchaser #2 -- He was nervous and I was there to help him through his first flight of the Guardian on T28. He took off in OFF mode, trimmed the plane, and turned on 2D. Then, he switched to 3D. He loves the Guardian. Gains were set to 50% and defaults were used on all other attributes of the Guardian.

Purchaser #3 -- He is still waiting. The harness had a defective lead, He's waiting for a replacement.

Like you said, start simple, and enjoy the Guardian. Reduce you pilot workload and fly on windy days.

Bill
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Prof100; Aug 20, 2012 at 09:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:57 AM
The Shetland Flyer
RoryG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Lerwick
Joined Jun 2008
322 Posts
I agree - I'm using one in my Icon A5 and one in my 1400mm Cessna. Gains are 60% and apart from a bit of rudder mix the settings are default. Both aircraft fly like a dream in 2D and 3D modes, water take offs are dead straight without a wing catching the water with the Icon. And with the Cessna, the aircraft is so stable even at very low speeds I no longer need the flaps to land it - indeed, landings are much smoother without flaps as it confuses the Guardian a wee bit (I still have a flap - ele mix, might remove it).

One thing I'm finding is it's difficult to get level flight set, the Icon has a slow descent in 2D mode and the Cessna climbs and has a slight bank. I've reset it several times and never managed true straight and level flight with either aircraft - would be great to be able to set it in flight...

Now seriously considering a Guardian for my 1/4 scale Cub - managed to bend it quite badly on maiden take off due to a structural failure, but the Guardian *may* have saved it.

Cheers,

Rory
RoryG is offline Find More Posts by RoryG
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Grounded!
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:09 AM
flitelab's Avatar
Canada, NS, Halifax
Joined Feb 2010
6,634 Posts
For those in Canada we just received a shipment of Guardians and have some in stock:
http://www.flitelab.com/OnlineStore/...tabilizer.aspx
flitelab is offline Find More Posts by flitelab
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
922 Posts
Level Set Difficulty?

I have a similar problem - in my Techone Swift, I keep trying to get level by repeated test flights, reset on the ground, back up in the air, etc. One new issue for me is that, after I reset on the ground, while holding the bird steady, I notice that elevator and aileron shift slightly indicating that the Guardian's sense of "level" somehow changes; even without moving the bird after the "within 14 seconds reset of level and trims".

I wonder if that is what you might be experiencing, also. I'm going to do a few more experiments before reaching out to tech support. 3D mode works great, it is just 2D mode that seems to have a shifting level definition.

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoryG View Post
I agree - I'm using one in my Icon A5 and one in my 1400mm Cessna. Gains are 60% and apart from a bit of rudder mix the settings are default. Both aircraft fly like a dream in 2D and 3D modes, water take offs are dead straight without a wing catching the water with the Icon. And with the Cessna, the aircraft is so stable even at very low speeds I no longer need the flaps to land it - indeed, landings are much smoother without flaps as it confuses the Guardian a wee bit (I still have a flap - ele mix, might remove it).

One thing I'm finding is it's difficult to get level flight set, the Icon has a slow descent in 2D mode and the Cessna climbs and has a slight bank. I've reset it several times and never managed true straight and level flight with either aircraft - would be great to be able to set it in flight...

Now seriously considering a Guardian for my 1/4 scale Cub - managed to bend it quite badly on maiden take off due to a structural failure, but the Guardian *may* have saved it.

Cheers,

Rory
Snowflake6515 is offline Find More Posts by Snowflake6515
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:50 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2006
36 Posts
Guardian Mounting Question

Looking for suggestions on mounting the Guardian in a DLE-30/Big Stick.

A friend finished up the build, and we ran the DLE for the first time yesterday. I have a couple of gas powered, one a 1/4 scale Flair Stearman with an ASP 400R and a Vailly 1/5 scale L19A with a G23. I have the Guardian setup in the L19A, but have not done a final mounting yet. The Big Stick is also at the point that the Guardian needs the final mounting, Both the G23 and the DLE-30 are vibrators, the ASP400R radial will most likely be better.

I have been on this thread since the beginning, and do not think that there has been a lot of discussion on mounting the Guardian on large gas or glow models.

Looking for any suggestions.

Ken
w3kmp
W PA

PS I have a Guardian in a ParkZone T-28. It is great! Can't wait to get any of the large gas/glow aircraft flying with it installed!
Ken41 is offline Find More Posts by Ken41
Last edited by Ken41; Aug 20, 2012 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Spelling
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 12:03 PM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
8,428 Posts
Ken41,
You will get other opinions but here is mine:
http://www.mycoolrc.com/gyro/GyroMounting.html

If you open up the reference PDF and look at 3), that's what I did for a rudder gyro in my G26 powered WWI bipe. Seems extreme but This is $1500 worth of airplane and I applied an appropriate amount of vibration isolation for the value of the plane.

The Guardian uses a better mems chip than the Gyro I used (GY520) so I may have applied overkill but the information is there for your reading.
Melnic is offline Find More Posts by Melnic
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2012, 12:14 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
15,878 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken41 View Post
Looking for suggestions on mounting the Guardian in a DLE-30/Big Stick.

A friend finished up the build, and we ran the DLE for the first time yesterday. I have a couple of gas powered, one a 1/4 scale Flair Stearman with an ASP 400R and a Vailly 1/5 scale L19A with a G23. I have the Guardian setup in the L19A, but have not done a final mounting yet. The Big Stick is also at the point that the Guardian needs the final mounting, Both the G23 and the DLE-30 are vibrators, the ASP400R radial will most likely be better.

I have been on this thread since the beginning, and do not think that there has been a lot of discussion on mounting the Guardian on large gas or glow models.

Looking for any suggestions.

Ken
w3kmp
W PA

PS I have a Guardian in a ParkZone T-28. It is great! Can't wait to get any of the large gas/glow aircraft flying with it installed!
Ken,

I think you are the pioneer on this thread. Obviously, it would behoove you to isolate the Guardian from vibration while not de-coupling it from plane.

Bill
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Old Aug 20, 2012, 12:51 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
15,878 Posts
Foamy plane flyers and landing in 3D

Be warned that once you land your plane in heading hold mode (3D) the Guardian stays locked in that heading and if you pick up the plane and change its orientation the Guardian will move the control surfaces (rudder, elevator and ailerons) to return the plane to the heading in memory. Therefore, it's best to shut off the Guardian once you land. This will save the stress and strain on your servos.
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Old Aug 20, 2012, 02:10 PM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
mchldpy's Avatar
United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
656 Posts
from everydayflyer
[quote]
How can Guardian be expected to hold aircraft vertical which requires use of all control surfaces while letting the pilot use the Ail. to roll the plane. This would in my opinion be very similiar to pireo compensation as used in heli controls ( FBL and advanced Gyro units). Wait perhaps Guardin can be programed to do this. I guess my point is to start with a simple setup and learn the basics and then build toward your ideal .

now that you've expressed your opinion why don't you describe to the person your talking about, which is me, how in any stretch of the imaginative opinion that the roll axis has any bearing on holding a vertical line which, while in a vertical orientation is determined by the rudder and elevator position and only if those are not keeping the plane in a vertical line would the roll axis have any influence on the vertical position of the plane. disconnect the roll axis and once in a vertical line it won't make any difference because it has nothing to do with holding the plane vertical.

perhaps instead of just talking smack and putting somebody down with your little snide remarks you could brush up on some basic aeronautical principles of flight and like you said above "start with the basics" before moving up to the big boy conversations where it's always advisable to get the get the brain in gear before letting the clutch out on the mouth so as to not look foolish and petty which, in my opinion, is not a good look, but you can troll (and yeah you were trolling) on if that's what trips your trigger.

michael clyde
mchldpy is offline Find More Posts by mchldpy
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Can I control Guardian stabilizer with DX6i? njwxyz Eagle Tree Systems 6 May 02, 2013 04:41 PM
Discussion GPS 2D Plots incomplete, 3D OK jackerbes Eagle Tree Systems 1 Oct 23, 2011 09:42 PM
Discussion Premier 1st generation, Gen 2 Vector unit, 2D or 3D motor unit lanternfly RC Kites 0 Oct 05, 2011 09:42 PM
Data 2d or 3d wing ribs? Marty7n Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 56 Sep 22, 2011 04:06 PM
Discussion 3View to 3D to 2d techasist CAD/CAM 0 Mar 27, 2011 12:19 AM