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Old Aug 14, 2012, 01:03 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by IEATSRT View Post
Ok guys firstly thanks for all the info you've put on here. I am amazed at the knowledge this group has! I spent the past 3 days sifting through all the pages of this thread, lots to absorb but I think I am finally getting my head around it! My guardian should be here today and will start setting it up on my carbon z yak, running HS85mg servos all around. Using Dx7 so plan is to plug gain channel into gear and have two settings, one (switch position 0) factory default around 40% and second (switch position 1) a bit higher perhaps 60%. Here is my first question, should my gear settings then be 0 and 10? or 40 and 50??

Mod lead will plug into the flap channel and I understand that one so don't need any help there. -100, 0 and 100 it is for 3d, off and 2d.

On a side note I emailed Hitec to get some servo frequencies. Informed me HS85mg servos have a pulse frequency of 70hz so in the advanced tab will set it to 70. If successful with the yak going to put a unit in my 3dhs 57" extra 330. Running HS5245 and Hitec said their frequency is 250hz. Also they said HS225 are 70hz FYI.

Also will measure my servo travel with stabilization disabled and adjust output servo rages to match with stabilization activated. Question though, what does adjusting the minimum do?

One last thing of clarification, adjusting the pots. I understand rotating cw vs ccw will change servo direction, but what would be a good starting point? I see numbers of 40 to 50%. So my guess is from top neutral postion 40-50% of the full direction of travel one can possibly turn the pot in the correct direction to get propper control movement of control surface? I understand if it oscillates it is too high but would like to know a good starting point... start low and increase I guess. Thanks in advance!

Last first, then back to work. Start at 40 or 50% and watch for oscillations. None? Move up the gain. Oscillations, move down.

First flight takeoff in the OFF position, get high up and then engage 2D mode just in case you screwed up the correction direction. If incorrect you can always turn it off. It happens. I reinstalled a fellow flyers Guardian when he had things all screwed up (100% gain AND reversed ailerons). .
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 02:56 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Ripon
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I don't think so because the gear switch is discrete switch and the gain is looking for proportional input. You'd have to be a TX programmer to do that. So, either buy another radio or trick a spare 3 position switch into discrete values via adjusting trims at each switch position like 100%, 75% and 50%.
Thanks Prof, thought it might be an issue with it being digital. Wish I could just pop out and get a new radio but trying to decide between the PA Extra and the Ultimate is going to break the bank as it is
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 06:12 PM
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United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
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er9x, er9x
i've got to where now i take off in 2d or 3d mode. that way if by some chance i did screw something up, i'm only 3 feet off the ground and i'm still going slow. being x amount of mistakes high is no good if your x + 1 mistakes high, ask jedorme, he tried to recover all the way to the ground. by the time he got there he had a nice head of steam built up. after all, you can't call it a lawn dart if it doesn't stick.
making sure the correction direction is right is a no brainer. it's easier than regular gyro setup. if you raise the right wing up, the a/lon should go up. it doesn't matter if your in front, behind or to the side. if you move any part of the plane,l wing, r wing, tail up, tail down, tail left, tail right, the control surface should move the same way. period.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 07:36 PM
Team SCHC
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SoCal
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Originally Posted by zguy View Post
LONG follow up report on the Guardian and No Brainer 28Ē EPP foamy (http://www.sweetrc.com - site is temporarily down).

The robotic feeling in heading hold I had initially reported got a bit better with some gain tuning and of course just getting used to it. Switching the heading hold off but keeping direct rate mode on gave the most organic feeling and to me was most similar to AS3X on the micro airplanes Iíve tried. I do wish the 3D modes could be toggled remotely.

Setup-
Before the unit arrived, I had thought of creating a new TX heli model with -100-0-+100 ranges and doing the whole set-up in the Guardian. This would mimic the heli FBL setups, give more flight mode tuning options and throttle hold (without needing the custom mix I run w/ planes). Although this is possible, once the unit arrived it's clearly not ETís intention to do it this way. I know there are some ďdedicatedĒ modelers that tweak all mechanical adjustments to match these radio settings, but Iím not one of them.
So, in order to be able to still fly the plane with the Guardian off, you really donít adjust anything. I did remove an ele-rud mix I had put in, but thatís it. You definitely want a 3-position switch to toggle between the 2D-off-3D modes. If using a DX6i, run a mix to get the 3 modes.

Gain adjustment-
Once I had the correction directions right, I set all about mid-way in the range and did a test flight. In a hover, the tail was not holding well with a wide, slow wag so I ended up raising rud to almost max. In a steep fast dive, the ele had a fast oscillation, so I lowered it a bit. Pretty straight forward stuff.

In direct rates, I kept 1Hz for ele/ail and increased rud to 1.25Hz.

Modes-

3D
3D heading hold is very addictive! I was doing knife edge loops with only rudder and throttle! I was able to make them so tight that it was more of a roll then a loop. ULTIMATE CHEATING!! For example, before I could only do sloppy knife edge loops w/ the foamy and with very visible corrections. Now with the Guardian, in the wind Iím connecting a pretty clean looking vertical figure 8ís in knife edge.
Really have to emphasize the dramatic difference this made on the foamy. No offense to the No Brainer at all as I love the thing, but it is an inherently unstable, flat plane that is strongly affected by the wind. I donít know if all planes will have as dramatic of an impact, but this platform really showcases what the system can do!

2D
If you really want to impress someone, tell them about the bailout mode and to be ready to press the mode switch. Take the plane up and enter a cock-eyed inverted dive, raise your hands and tell them to watch the plane as they press the switch. Bingo, 1 more Guardian sold!

Off
How great to be able to turn it off for trim/CG verification (and to remind yourself how much itís doing. )

Misc notes-
One of my regrets in the foamy is the use of $2- servos. They do not center well and usually cause the need to adjust trim often. This is not good for 2D mode (level flight setting) and even though I only plan to use 2D to show the bailout function of the Guardian, it is a concern. Now, if the servos are upgraded to digitals, will the small linear BEC be able to keep up?!?

Power/weight/battery consumption-
I like to fly my plane ďbig skyĒ 3D. Well, thanks to the new flight envelope offered by the Guardian, my flight times have been reduced 20%+! (This is analogous to putting FBL on a heli and being able to fly it that much harder.) Multiple knife edge power loops take lots of energy!

Software-
VERY happy to have the software interface for programming and to verify settings. Stick programming sucks!

Overall itís so refreshing to have a product come out and deliver on all promises on the initial release. Great job Eagle Tree! This, (or some stabilization unit) will definitely be part of all future planes that I get.

Now canít wait for the multi-copter functionalityÖÖThey are going to sell a sh*t load of these!
Added a short video:

Guardian No Brainer Hover (0 min 24 sec)
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Great White North
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Nice !

But can you verify if 3d heading hold was on or off for that video - i presume it was on with somewhat low gains ?

Al
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 08:48 PM
Team SCHC
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Originally Posted by alros_100 View Post
Nice !

But can you verify if 3d heading hold was on or off for that video - i presume it was on with somewhat low gains ?

Al
Yes, heading hold 3D was ON. Gains were as high as they can go without oscillation.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 09:00 PM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
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eFlite Habu 32 EDF Solo WIth Help of Guardian

Just a quick note to express my appreciation for all the help I received (directly and indirectly) from this forum on setting up the Guardian unit.

I had a Habu 32 EDF that was crashed several times by a very experienced RC pilot (and full-scale jet pilot). It was getting expensive to repair it and I had not landed it, by my self, and only flown on a buddy box.

To make a long story short, I installed a Guardian unit (third one, now) and set the plane up for dual ailerons (CROW, reduced by advancing the throttle), elevator and rudder. I estimated the level attitude and had trims from before the last crash, so did a ground set of level and trims.

I set the gain to about 30 - 40% (0 - 100% scale), but took off with Guardian off. Quickly, I could see I was overcontrolling the bird, so I switched on 3D mode and it smoothed everything out. I did some experimenting with 2D, verifying level and no oscillations.

I then made a greaser landing in 3D mode and was able to observe that the ailerons were being manipulated by the Guardian.

This would not have been possible without all the help I received from the forum as well as the outstanding Guardian product.

Michael
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by zguy View Post
Yes, heading hold 3D was ON. Gains were as high as they can go without oscillation.

Could you share the actual gains on your flat plate plane. I am building a similar one right now.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 11:44 PM
Team Wack-a-Mole
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Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
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zguy, what happens when you start to try to do a torque roll with some aileron assistance by giving it some roll input?
In Heading hold mode, Once I touch the sticks, it comes out of heading hold which does not really seem to help much with doing a torque roll.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 04:24 AM
who put that tree there
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Joined Jun 2010
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first plane saved due to this guardian.
got a new mini spitfire (fms h/k clone) a nightmare to get flying correctly,my last one so beat up needed replacing.
set cog up as 45mm wahhhhhhh to nose heavy control surfaces way to sensitive,thank god for 2d mode..
4 batterys later finally got it,set cog at 56mm finally got it flying how i wanted it..
a lot different to the fms spitfire cog was 45mm thank goodness for that 2d mode saved it from trying to resemble a fence post
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 09:05 AM
Team SCHC
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SoCal
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Could you share the actual gains on your flat plate plane. I am building a similar one right now.
Current settings.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 09:07 AM
Team SCHC
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Originally Posted by Melnic View Post
zguy, what happens when you start to try to do a torque roll with some aileron assistance by giving it some roll input?
In Heading hold mode, Once I touch the sticks, it comes out of heading hold which does not really seem to help much with doing a torque roll.
Will have to play with this some more, but I've had the same experience. Probably better with HH off.
Really hope the 3D modes can be toggled remotely in a future update.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by zguy View Post
Current settings.
zguy,

Mighty fine of you to snap a picture. Thank you.

Bill
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 06:03 AM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
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United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
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what if you set level flight and trims with the plane vertical in 2d mode, then switch to off or to 3d mode to take off and then when near vertical, switch to 2d mode and crank up the gain, then when roll axis was touched it wouldn't disable the other axis? does that even sound feasible?
has anybody come up with a way around the 3d hh disengaging all 3 axis when the roll axis is touched syndrome?
too bad you can't have two 2d modes, one with level flight set level and one set with level in the vertical position.

michael clyde
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 07:37 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by mchldpy View Post
what if you set level flight and trims with the plane vertical in 2d mode, then switch to off or to 3d mode to take off and then when near vertical, switch to 2d mode and crank up the gain, then when roll axis was touched it wouldn't disable the other axis? does that even sound feasible?
has anybody come up with a way around the 3d hh disengaging all 3 axis when the roll axis is touched syndrome?
too bad you can't have two 2d modes, one with level flight set level and one set with level in the vertical position.

michael clyde

Michael,

Why would you want to set level flight and trims with the plane vertical?

Bill
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